As everyone knows... that is, as everyone who could possibly care less already knows, the girls in my household do not now, nor have they ever cut their hair. That's just us.
But even with this aspect of our own personal identity I do feel a very real level of embarrassment, even humiliation over this HMH nonsense. I don't want to be associated with it. I don't want the words "Oneness" or "Apostolic Faith" to be associated with it.
I also don't want a culture that facilitates fraud and deception to be associated with my beliefs either. That's what I'm railing about.
As everyone knows... that is, as everyone who could possibly care less already knows, the girls in my household do not now, nor have they ever cut their hair. That's just us.
But even with this aspect of our own personal identity I do feel a very real level of embarrassment, even humiliation over this HMH nonsense. I don't want to be associated with it. I don't want the words "Oneness" or "Apostolic Faith" to be associated with it.
I also don't want a culture that facilitates fraud and deception to be associated with my beliefs either. That's what I'm railing about.
I can understand this and I agree. I think we should allow our words to speak for themselves. Don't try to impress everyone with your education and academia. Just preach the truth. I am not at all impressed by what I've read today. I think I will just back away from certain people and let God take care of it.
__________________ Jeremiah chapter 4 and verse 21 KJV
How long shall I see the standard, and hear the sound of the trumpet?
1 Cor. chapter 14 and verse 8 KJV
8For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
Joel chapter 2 and verse 1
Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;
Oh it gets weirder ... considering the roots of SEU and its founder and those who claim to its alumni ... including Oneness ministers Stoneking, Art Wilson and .... now Kalwunt Boora.
It's founder is Count Daniel Grimaldi or Daniel Swann... convicted con-man:
Prax, I appreciate your honesty. I don't advocate HMH either. In FACT, I publicly denounced it in Fort Worth, TX in 2008 at the Apostolic Theological Forum. HMH is not held by everyone IMHO but it is a problem in some places. Jason has my paper I wrote there as well.
I am not licensed with the UPCI. I attend a UPC church. I do believe though that any attempt to organize human beings will generate faults and flaws. It is our problem though and not the true desire of UPC men. I would say most of them have a desire to preach the Apostolic message and are very good men. I would never be so naive to assume any social structure as being absolutely monolithic.
Well as long as we have an organization, we need to be diligent with the faults and failures and do something.
I don't care for the jumping on the band wagon mentality, the gang mentality that just seeks to attack an organization for the love of just being negative. But on the other hand what we seem to have from the UPC folks is a desire to crush all dissent, to hide the facts etc etc...
People are suspicious already. They have exclusive forums. We are open. Those types regularly come on here to condemn everyone to hell that does not believe like they do, calling this forum by disparaging terms and what it seems to me is they are reaping what they sowed. By taking that sort of low road, to hide and control,it only fosters more resentment and suspicions,
And the liberal minded people are not perfect either. But what happens on this thread could have happened anywhere. Everything is public record. Who calls other ministers in the UPC on the stuff that goes on? Who dares to touch "the anointed"ones within the UPC? It doesn't seem like anyone does anything except for the "out casts".
IMO the reason LS has not been addressed more directly and this doctrine, is because the UPCI has, as an organization, a dishonest attitude of "the ends justify the means" and as long as what HMH teaches manipulates women into not cutting their hear for fear of losing protection, the UPC will do nothing.
Now, we have people sporting Ph.d's that are questionable and who is gonna do anything? You can't protect someone's reputation by ducking our heads in the ground, by threats or self denials...the reputation issues just get worse. BTW I used "You" generically, not meaning you personally
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
I'm not a member of the UPCI, so I am not sure about what is going on. I hadn't even heard about the doctrine of divine flesh before now. I do believe that DKB is a good man. At least we know that his education is legit.
DKB is the nerd's nerd and a tremendous asset to the UPC fellowship. It was under his guidance and leadership that UGST persevered and won their accreditation. Only a leader who understands the importance of education would even hang on doggedly through that whole process.
The "divine flesh" thing is really just an aspect of the ancient Gnosticism that was part and parcel of the early church. Most of the Gnostic writings were preserved in Ethiopian Coptic texts, so it really should be a surprise that it was our Ethiopian brethren who brought this idea to the table.
Well as long as we have an organization, we need to be diligent with the faults and failures and do something.
I don't care for the jumping on the band wagon mentality, the gang mentality that just seeks to attack an organization for the love of just being negative. But on the other hand what we seem to have from the UPC folks is a desire to crush all dissent, to hide the facts etc etc...
People are suspicious already. They have exclusive forums. We are open. Those types regularly come on here to condemn everyone to hell that does not believe like they do, calling this forum by disparaging terms and what it seems to me is they are reaping what they sowed. By taking that sort of low road, to hide and control,it only fosters more resentment and suspicions,
And the liberal minded people are not perfect either. But what happens on this thread could have happened anywhere. Everything is public record. Who calls other ministers in the UPC on the stuff that goes on? Who dares to touch "the anointed"ones within the UPC? It doesn't seem like anyone does anything except for the "out casts".
IMO the reason LS has not been addressed more directly and this doctrine, is because the UPCI has, as an organization, a dishonest attitude of "the ends justify the means" and as long as what HMH teaches manipulates women into not cutting their hear for fear of losing protection, the UPC will do nothing.
Now, we have people sporting Ph.d's that are questionable and who is gonna do anything? You can't protect someone's reputation by ducking our heads in the ground, by threats or self denials...the reputation issues just get worse. BTW I used "You" generically, not meaning you personally
I think this causes distrust towards the ministry.
FYI, this thread's views are just about to surpass those of the thread "We're Not Putting X-Mas Trees Up!". Thought you'd like to know! After that, the next target is "Red on Women Drives Men Wild".
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
I'm not a member of the UPCI, so I am not sure about what is going on. I hadn't even heard about the doctrine of divine flesh before now. I do believe that DKB is a good man. At least we know that his education is legit.
Very true! Although I have to say the decision of pursuing a degree in religion from University of South Africa at this point is his career is a rather interesting choice.
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