SEU (Southern Eastern University) updates

[Praxeas]

I love "Oneness Pentecostalism"...I don't love the extremism such as HMH and damning everyone to hell.

I don't love the UPC with all it's faults...I think we need to stop hiding the faults and pretending they never happened or that they will go away on their own. That's the problem a lot of people have had with the UPC. It's a good ol boys club, more concerned with protecting it's own than the truth...as evidence by nothing being done about HMH and other issues that have been raised here.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by DAII

Has Kal lived that long in England after seemingly living in Ohio then Michigan? Unless he trained under a solicitor here in the States?

I don't know ... maybe someone can fill in the gaps.

My take is that he originates from the UK and his tenure in the American Midwest is the more recent extension of his adventures.

While such minutia may help to inform our questions about his published claims, I don't know that we really require too extensive of a bio from him. We're just concerned about possible misrepresentations in telephone conversations and in credentialing.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Standards

I think a lot of this discussion was blown out of proportion. Emotions were running high, and I'm sure that JN said a few things that he wishes he could take back. However, I think he handled himself pretty well and did not hurt his reputation too badly. The same can not be said for other parties involved, but I won't name names.

Start a thread. Name names. Quit foolin' around!

[Praxeas]

One thing to think about...if it can be done here, it can be done out there on other forums by other persons. Maybe this should be a notice to all to cleanup all our acts...really think about what we say in public, what we post in public etc etc..

For many of us, the word spoken in public on topics like HMH by it's advocates, is quite embarrassing and if you think what we say is bad you should consider how what they out there think, especially if you believe they are lost and need us to lead them to the truth

[Standards]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I love "Oneness Pentecostalism"...I don't love the extremism such as HMH and damning everyone to hell.

I don't love the UPC with all it's faults...I think we need to stop hiding the faults and pretending they never happened or that they will go away on their own. That's the problem a lot of people have had with the UPC. It's a good ol boys club, more concerned with protecting it's own than the truth...as evidence by nothing being done about HMH and other issues that have been raised here.

Doctrinal differences will happen in organizations from time to time. There’s a difference between turning a blind eye to something and allowing an individual that has few beliefs that may differ from the majority to continue preaching. I do realize that the org. has indeed turned a blind eye to some questionable actions, but the UPCI is not the only org. that has this problem, you know. The degree is another issue, but I'd rather keep my opinions to myself. I'll just have to pray about it and let God work it out.

[JN Anderson]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I love "Oneness Pentecostalism"...I don't love the extremism such as HMH and damning everyone to hell.

I don't love the UPC with all it's faults...I think we need to stop hiding the faults and pretending they never happened or that they will go away on their own. That's the problem a lot of people have had with the UPC. It's a good ol boys club, more concerned with protecting it's own than the truth...as evidence by nothing being done about HMH and other issues that have been raised here.

Prax, I appreciate your honesty. I don't advocate HMH either. In FACT, I publicly denounced it in Fort Worth, TX in 2008 at the Apostolic Theological Forum. HMH is not held by everyone IMHO but it is a problem in some places. Jason has my paper I wrote there as well.

I am not licensed with the UPCI. I attend a UPC church. I do believe though that any attempt to organize human beings will generate faults and flaws. It is our problem though and not the true desire of UPC men. I would say most of them have a desire to preach the Apostolic message and are very good men. I would never be so naive to assume any social structure as being absolutely monolithic.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Standards

Doctrinal differences will happen in organizations from time to time. There’s a difference between turning a blind eye to something and allowing an individual that has few beliefs that may differ from the majority to continue preaching. I do realize that the org. has indeed turned a blind eye to some questionable actions, but the UPCI is not the only org. that has this problem, you know. The degree is another issue, but I'd rather keep my opinions to myself. I'll just have to pray about it and let God work it out.

The UPC came down hard on the doctrine of Divine Flesh....but it's winking at HMH

[Standards]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

The UPC came down hard on the doctrine of Divine Flesh....but it's winking at HMH

I'm not a member of the UPCI, so I am not sure about what is going on. I hadn't even heard about the doctrine of divine flesh before now. I do believe that DKB is a good man. At least we know that his education is legit.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

One thing to think about...if it can be done here, it can be done out there on other forums by other persons. Maybe this should be a notice to all to cleanup all our acts...really think about what we say in public, what we post in public etc etc..

For many of us, the word spoken in public on topics like HMH by it's advocates, is quite embarrassing and if you think what we say is bad you should consider how what they out there think, especially if you believe they are lost and need us to lead them to the truth

As everyone knows... that is, as everyone who could possibly care less already knows, the girls in my household do not now, nor have they ever cut their hair. That's just us.

But even with this aspect of our own personal identity I do feel a very real level of embarrassment, even humiliation over this HMH nonsense. I don't want to be associated with it. I don't want the words "Oneness" or "Apostolic Faith" to be associated with it.

I also don't want a culture that facilitates fraud and deception to be associated with my beliefs either. That's what I'm railing about.

[JN Anderson]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

The UPC came down hard on the doctrine of Divine Flesh....but it's winking at HMH

"there will be a day..."