Second Work of Grace?

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by SteppingStone

Where did I say that? I said faith is usually the 1st gift of the Spirit that we realize. Faith comes from the Spirit as well as tongues, many gifts from one Spirit..

Ok.

I misunderstood you.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by SteppingStone

I say nay, faith comes by HEARING THE WORD OF GOD, it is seed and it is life. Jesus said, "The Words that I speak are Spirit and they are life." Faith is planted, otherwise how can they believe on someone they've never heard of?
One can't have faith without the Spirit, it's a spiritual virtue, granted it's just a measure.

I agree that the initial measure of faith leads to deeper faith but it has to start somewhere..

Religion has made this more difficult than it really is and in the process has condemned many...

So you disagree with the Bible? Interesting. Read Romans 12:3. "God has dealt to EVERY man a measure of faith." So there you go. Your argument doesn't hold water.

[ChTatum]

"Second Work of Grace" was a doctrine first posited by Wesley, I believe. His account was of one that dealt with an over-powering infusion, and I believe he also spoke of a divine utterance.

[SteppingStone]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

So you disagree with the Bible? Interesting. Read Romans 12:3. "God has dealt to EVERY man a measure of faith." So there you go. Your argument doesn't hold water.

Well then a preacher never needs to be sent, we just automatically know who God is, why Jesus died for us, etc etc.. Awesome!!!

Read the entire verse:

Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by SteppingStone

Well then a preacher never needs to be sent, we just automatically know who God is, why Jesus died for us, etc etc.. Awesome!!!

Read the entire verse:

Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

In context, he is talking about the various members of the body and the gifts of the Spirit which he lists later in that chapter. He starts off by exhorting each of us to personally commit ourselves to God as living sacrifices. Then he goes on to emphasize the oneness of the body of Christ and the diversity of gifts. It is my opinion that when Paul uses the term "every man" there he is speaking of the ones to whom he addressed the epistle --those in Rome, beloved of God, and called saints-- see Romans 1:7. He then goes on in what we have labeled Romans 1:8 and said their faith is spoken of throughout the whole world. I'm not pulling the old "Gospels/Acts/Epistles" argument here, but in this case, I think it is applicable.

I hit the send button before I was finished.
What I was trying to say is that I think Paul is talking about believers here and we have all been given different measures of faith. We all have received from God enough safe to save us (ref Ephesians 2:8) and since then our faith may have grown like the saints in Thessalonica had grown as recorded in 2 Thessalonians 2:3. Concerning our faith being able to grow, I have a quote in my Bible at this verse in 2 Thess. 2:3 which says:
"Faith is like a muscle: It can be strengthened. It can be weak or it can be strong depending on how much you use it" Rick Warren