That she's basically agnostic, or there-a-bouts, and still speaks in tongues. Of course, there are many religion forms that "speak in tongues" but she's not in any of them, to my knowledge.
My guess is she speaks in tongues when she has her mind on God.
From my experience, speaking in tongues isn't something we do, we don't initiate it, it happens because the Spirit of God in us causes it to happen.
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His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
Even to someone who is a confessed agnostic?? She is currently agnostic, and she currently speaks in tongues. That does make my brain go
(sorry, Mich, for talking about you as if you aren't here )
I've heard carnal Christians speak with tongues when they are seeking God.
All I'm saying is I don't doubt that at times she speaks in tongues and that those tongues are a manifestation of the Spirit of God within her.
It tells me that God has not given her over to a reprobate mind despite the struggle with doubt she is having. What is really confusing to me is how she can deny the Bible as true having experienced the baptism of the Holy Spirit and speaking with other tongues. You would think such an experience would cement in her heart the truth of the word of God.
__________________
His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
Timmy, I don't really understand your theory, my reading comprehension is not too good, unless the writing is clear. Are you saying that if there is doubt then it is not of God?
No.
Quote:
And that epiphanies can be a natural occurrence of the mind?
Yes.
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can u explain better?
Probably. But now, TTYL.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Ok, you just totally fried my brain. I'm just reading through this and maybe someone will ask, but.....wow. Knowing what I know about you.......well, you fried my brain.
Can you explain?
Quote:
Originally Posted by notofworks
Ok, I finished reading and I can't really say I understand, but I hear what you're saying. It's been many years since my last "tongues" and I can completely say that any "tongues" I ever experienced was strictly what I learned to do. I don't have any fond memories of anything that has to do with tongues, unfortunately.
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Originally Posted by mizpeh
Why did that "fry your brain"?
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Originally Posted by notofworks
That she's basically agnostic, or there-a-bouts, and still speaks in tongues. Of course, there are many religion forms that "speak in tongues" but she's not in any of them, to my knowledge.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh
My guess is she speaks in tongues when she has her mind on God.
From my experience, speaking in tongues isn't something we do, we don't initiate it, it happens because the Spirit of God in us causes it to happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*
Even to someone who is a confessed agnostic?? She is currently agnostic, and she currently speaks in tongues. That does make my brain go
(sorry, Mich, for talking about you as if you aren't here )
Quote:
Originally Posted by notofworks
She's not!! Let's let her have it!
Seriously, I'm anxious to hear what she has to say.
I admit it. I tend to be a total and complete Dichotomy. And I confess, I get somewhat of a kick out of throwing people off, but only because I do that to myself half the time, LOL
I think I need to change my signature line! Because honestly, Agnostic, is not really the best label for me. (Maybe Agnostolic..lol).
I explained my views a bit a few weeks ago here, when I had called my self an Agnostic, a Deist and a Theist...and was asked to explain.
An Agnostic is someone who believes that there may or may no be a God, and that it can't really be known for sure.
A Deist believes that there is a creator God, but that he doesn't really intervene in human affairs
And a Theist also believes in a God, and does believe he is a personal and interactive God.
I claim all 3 of these, because I sometimes doubt that there even is a God, and I often doubt that if there is, it's possible to know anything about Him. Other times I am sure He exists, but feel he is very passive and doesn't really care about the trivial details of our lives.
But there are other days, when I believe He does exist, that He does care and He has some sort of plan.
Whether or not I think He exists, I almost always think of Him as Jesus, which I guess makes me a little tiny percentage oneness
I've heard carnal Christians speak with tongues when they are seeking God.
All I'm saying is I don't doubt that at times she speaks in tongues and that those tongues are a manifestation of the Spirit of God within her.
It tells me that God has not given her over to a reprobate mind despite the struggle with doubt she is having. What is really confusing to me is how she can deny the Bible as true having experienced the baptism of the Holy Spirit and speaking with other tongues. You would think such an experience would cement in her heart the truth of the word of God.
The "word of God" was the weapon that was used the most often and the most effectively to beat me into a broken and bloody lump...spiritually speaking. So to say that I have little trust for it is speaking mildly.
But once upon the time I reverenced the Bible as the thing I held most dear. I worshiped it. You would not be wrong to say that there was idolatry involved, as it was much more tangible to me than an invisible God.
When I got to the very very dark place where I came to believe that God was a horrible being that tortured us for his own amusement, the Bible seemed only to back that up. So I was left in this strange kind of limbo. Wanting to believe in a God that was good...but having very little to back up that desire.
And I admit...the Bible stumped me. I didn't know what to do with it. I couldn't worship it like before, but to completely ignore it left me feeling like I was treading water in the middle of a stormy ocean. I couldn't believe it, but I couldn't completely discard it either. I stayed like that for almost a year, until someone wrote something to me that included the words "God never promised to send us a book, he promised to send Himself. So I decided that rather than focus on the book that I had tried (and failed) to use as an instruction manual, I would focus instead on that Spirit.
Mich, it sounds to me like God promised to take you on a journey.... a journey that would lead you to him. And it sounds like that is exactly what he's doing.
OK, first, regarding epiphanies and other phenomena, such as visions, voices, etc. These things certainly can be naturally (or artificially) induced, triggered by things such as sleep deprivation, concentration, meditation, suggestion, drugs, etc. or combinations of things. Dreams, for example, are abundant in our normal experience, and sometimes they are so strange and vivid and specific, or maybe they solve a problem we've been having, that people think they are from God. But they could just be the culmination of wake-time events and memories and thoughts.
Now, regarding doubt. I don't think that doubt, whether it's about a specific case or about the concept of God's intervention in general, would prove anything about whether these are from God. My point was that, in my opinion, God would not use methods like speaking to people (either audibly or internally), visions, dreams, etc. The reason I believe this is that these methods are not reliable, and can easily be faked. God is smart enough to know that we mere mortals really can't tell if a "message" was from Him or not, so why would He sometimes give certain people actual messages?
Is there any question that, at least sometimes, people do fake these things? Some incentives for faking, say, a word from God are money (better offerings for an evangelist, e.g.), fame, prestige and admiration.
Still, I don't claim that any of this disproves divine communication. It's just the reason I think it is very unlikely that God does such things, and it's just my opinion.
Now, to reiterate, I do not accuse everyone with an amazing story of messages or visions from God of lying. Back to the first point, I think profound experiences can be very convincing to the recipient, and can be very helpful! Where it gets nasty is when people play them up and brag about them all the time, and especially when they are used as weapons of manipulation or fear or shame against people.
What about an amazing prediction in, e.g., a dream or a word of knowledge that one "couldn't possibly" have known if it weren't for God? Well, is God the only possible explanation for it? Again, sometimes people just cheat, and there are famous examples. But not everyone is a fraud. What about the honest folks? Many things come to mind and, IMO, they are more likely than divine messages. Sometimes, people randomly guess right. When they do, it amazes even them, and that's when things are remembered and talked about. When they guess wrong, they may iteratively refine the guessing until it becomes amazingly accurate, or they drop it and forget about it. And there are skills that can be developed and improved with practice, where the chances of a "hit" are improved: reading body language, picking up clues in conversation, general "guesses" that don't seem too general (someone in the room has back pain!).
I think these methods can be used innocently and unconsciously, even amazing the one receiving the "word". But quite often, IMO, they are used intentionally by hucksters and frauds.
Now, I said these methods that God allegedly uses to communicate with people are unreliable. By that I mean that it is impossible to determine with 100% certainty that any particular message is really from God. This is true no matter how amazing the message is, or how profound the experience was. It could have been from God, or it could have been one of the natural (or induced) phenomena I have described. People can say "I know God's voice" all they want, but that may just be wishful thinking. Nothing more than faith, and faith is not proof.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
well I agree Timmy, that messages can be natural phenomena and that faith is not proof. What is more sure is the bible that we have as the word of God. That's why I question Michlow if God told her to leave church when the bible says not to forsake the assembly.
I still believe God can communicate but does so rarely. Why? I don't know. I think God may have wanted Michlow to go to another church.
My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. 
)
TTYL. 
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