Banned from AMF, AGAIN!

[JoeCastorina]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

I do not believe that those who teach tithing teach about the "blessings associated with giving" at all. I believe and do take the small amount of time to correct me that those who teach tithing teach tithing attach tithing to salvation and not blessings as you imply here. True or untrue?

I can't speak for everyone who teaches tithing, but I can say that this is untrue about people I know.

I personally have not heard anyone teach tithing in the spirit you say they do. I don't doubt that it has probably happened since I've heard all kinds of things taught.

Personally, whenever I talk about tithes and offerings, I always associate the blessings that come as a result. It is the only place in the entire Bible where God says "if you don't believe me, try me." He wasn't talking about damnation there, he was talking about blessings.

He said that if we didn't believe he would bless us immeasurably through tithing, then we should try him and see if he'll prove it.

If God is willing to say that, then I believe him. FTR, I have never had him fail me yet.

[tbpew]

Originally Posted by JoeCastorina

I can't speak for everyone who teaches tithing, but I can say that this is untrue about people I know.

I personally have not heard anyone teach tithing in the spirit you say they do. I don't doubt that it has probably happened since I've heard all kinds of things taught.

Personally, whenever I talk about tithes and offerings, I always associate the blessings that come as a result. It is the only place in the entire Bible where God says "if you don't believe me, try me." He wasn't talking about damnation there, he was talking about blessings.

He said that if we didn't believe he would bless us immeasurably through tithing, then we should try him and see if he'll prove it.

If God is willing to say that, then I believe him. FTR, I have never had him fail me yet.

can someone who "Robs God" be saved?

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

This is it?

Funny thing is that I am also on a couple of other boards and they both are dedicated to tropical fish hobbyists. lol
And while there can be small disagreements I have yet to see a full fledged argument on either. Granted, we're not dealing with heaven or hell issues......

Yes, but who is going to die over a fish? We could possibly be prepared to die for our religious beliefs. That's when it gets a bit passionate in the discussion. LOL!

[tbpew]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Yes, but who is going to die over a fish? We could possibly be prepared to die for our religious beliefs. That's when it gets a bit passionate in the discussion. LOL!

Randy,
would you die for your dog?

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by tbpew

Randy,
would you die for your dog?

I was going to stay here, during a hurricane, if my husband didn't let me take my dog. Hmmmmmmm..... I could be wrong about the religious thing.

[MawMaw]

ROFLOL, that video is way out there crazy!!!!

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

He has been all over the net the past two years! Or haven't you seen this? LOL

Originally Posted by Lacey

ROFLOL, that video is way out there crazy!!!!

[JoeCastorina]

Originally Posted by tbpew

can someone who "Robs God" be saved?

What would make a person willingly rob God?

I'm not about to make a judgement call on someone's salvation. I will tell someone what the Bible says and they can determine if they'll comply. In my opinion, tithing also has to do with authority (See Hebrews 7). When you fail to tithe, you rob God of that authority in your life.

Without going too deep into it right now (because you guys are sucking me in ), God was not just speaking to the priesthood in Malachi 3. He started out speaking to the priesthood and then made the transition in vs 6 (I believe, no Bible in front of me) to the entire nation. He associated their lack of tithing to the same type of disobedience when they walked away from him time and time again.

The writer of Hebrews uses the subject of tithing to prove the superiority of Christ's priesthood. He shows that Christ is the end recipient of tithes. Christ is the superior, we are the inferior. The superior always blesses the inferior. That is a law of authority that the writer of Hebrews clearly acknowledges and associates with this practice.

Tithing is not a part of the OT law in that it pre-existed the law. Abraham did it (we have no reason to believe it was a one time only event), Jacob promised it to God, and many believe even Able did it when he brought the first of his herd to God in sacrifice. On top of this, only the ceremonial law of the OT was fuliflled, the moral law sill applies even to the Christian.

As for it being salvific, when we get into the mindset that categorizes each doctrine as a "Heaven Issue" or "Hell Issue" then we have completely lost the point. Tithing is not about "do this or burn." Tithing is a principle of authority, worship, submission, and blessings. To turn it into a Heaven or Hell argument is to remove the very purpose of tithing.

The lack of tithing speaks to a greater internal issue. God gives us everything we are increased with. He asks only for 10% to support those who devote their lives to ministry. To refuse God the 10% he requests is to deny his sovereignty. You rob God of his authority in your life.


That's a brief description of my take on the issue anyway.

[tbpew]

thanks for sharing your take.

I was citing the oft used basis for apostolic teachers directly linking the tithe with salvation.

Your take appears to come to the same bottom line by using an equation with subtraction rather than addition.

But your sharing is, and will be, a valued part of future posting related to this compelling topic.

Originally Posted by JoeCastorina

What would make a person willingly rob God?

I'm not about to make a judgement call on someone's salvation. I will tell someone what the Bible says and they can determine if they'll comply. In my opinion, tithing also has to do with authority (See Hebrews 7). When you fail to tithe, you rob God of that authority in your life.

Without going too deep into it right now (because you guys are sucking me in ), God was not just speaking to the priesthood in Malachi 3. He started out speaking to the priesthood and then made the transition in vs 6 (I believe, no Bible in front of me) to the entire nation. He associated their lack of tithing to the same type of disobedience when they walked away from him time and time again.

The writer of Hebrews uses the subject of tithing to prove the superiority of Christ's priesthood. He shows that Christ is the end recipient of tithes. Christ is the superior, we are the inferior. The superior always blesses the inferior. That is a law of authority that the writer of Hebrews clearly acknowledges and associates with this practice.

Tithing is not a part of the OT law in that it pre-existed the law. Abraham did it (we have no reason to believe it was a one time only event), Jacob promised it to God, and many believe even Able did it when he brought the first of his herd to God in sacrifice. On top of this, only the ceremonial law of the OT was fuliflled, the moral law sill applies even to the Christian.

As for it being salvific, when we get into the mindset that categorizes each doctrine as a "Heaven Issue" or "Hell Issue" then we have completely lost the point. Tithing is not about "do this or burn." Tithing is a principle of authority, worship, submission, and blessings. To turn it into a Heaven or Hell argument is to remove the very purpose of tithing.

The lack of tithing speaks to a greater internal issue. God gives us everything we are increased with. He asks only for 10% to support those who devote their lives to ministry. To refuse God the 10% he requests is to deny his sovereignty. You rob God of his authority in your life.


That's a brief description of my take on the issue anyway.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by JoeCastorina

What would make a person willingly rob God?

I'm not about to make a judgement call on someone's salvation. I will tell someone what the Bible says and they can determine if they'll comply. In my opinion, tithing also has to do with authority (See Hebrews 7). When you fail to tithe, you rob God of that authority in your life.

Without going too deep into it right now (because you guys are sucking me in ), God was not just speaking to the priesthood in Malachi 3. He started out speaking to the priesthood and then made the transition in vs 6 (I believe, no Bible in front of me) to the entire nation. He associated their lack of tithing to the same type of disobedience when they walked away from him time and time again.

The writer of Hebrews uses the subject of tithing to prove the superiority of Christ's priesthood. He shows that Christ is the end recipient of tithes. Christ is the superior, we are the inferior. The superior always blesses the inferior. That is a law of authority that the writer of Hebrews clearly acknowledges and associates with this practice.

Tithing is not a part of the OT law in that it pre-existed the law. Abraham did it (we have no reason to believe it was a one time only event), Jacob promised it to God, and many believe even Able did it when he brought the first of his herd to God in sacrifice. On top of this, only the ceremonial law of the OT was fuliflled, the moral law sill applies even to the Christian.

As for it being salvific, when we get into the mindset that categorizes each doctrine as a "Heaven Issue" or "Hell Issue" then we have completely lost the point. Tithing is not about "do this or burn." Tithing is a principle of authority, worship, submission, and blessings. To turn it into a Heaven or Hell argument is to remove the very purpose of tithing.

The lack of tithing speaks to a greater internal issue. God gives us everything we are increased with. He asks only for 10% to support those who devote their lives to ministry. To refuse God the 10% he requests is to deny his sovereignty. You rob God of his authority in your life.


That's a brief description of my take on the issue anyway.

I think one fundamental difference is that you are viewing pastors as superiors to laity. I view them as equals.

Another fundamental difference is that you want to compare modern day pastors more to old testament priests. I would describe them more as Pharisees or Rabbis, NOT BECAUSE OF HYPOCRISY, but because the general consensus is that they were the religious leaders of Jesus' time. Many pharisees and Rabbis were not of the tribe of Levi and so these would not have received tithes. (If I am wrong on this please correct me).