Banned from AMF, AGAIN!

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by TJJJ

Well, well!

I might have more respect for him and do offer him an apology for slighting his good name! Calling him all those people!

So, if he is there, and a true muslim, how in the world did he get on here if you have to be apostolic? You see where the deception came in?

Now I have scammed a few here and there, heh heh, and thus felt that this was truly a scam as it appears he would have had to say he was apostolic to be on this forum. Or is that not in effect anymore?

Could we go on a muslim forum and post? Hmmmmm that could be fun with all our different alias'. Just don't use the name Rushdie!

As far as making a fool, that is why I am here!

You have one flaw here...you don't HAVE to be Apostolic to be here. Remember this is not an ultra concerative board

[Walks_in_islam]

It is a good name and picked for its potential deceptive value. Sadly I realize that I can no longer fool the perceptive among you.

Originally Posted by TJJJ

Well, well!

I might have more respect for him and do offer him an apology for slighting his good name! Calling him all those people!

So, if he is there, and a true muslim, how in the world did he get on here if you have to be apostolic? You see where the deception came in?

Now I have scammed a few here and there, heh heh, and thus felt that this was truly a scam as it appears he would have had to say he was apostolic to be on this forum. Or is that not in effect anymore?

Could we go on a muslim forum and post? Hmmmmm that could be fun with all our different alias'. Just don't use the name Rushdie!

As far as making a fool, that is why I am here!

[Walks_in_islam]

hm I can see where that could be a useful tool..

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I look up where a lot of our posters are at, usually to confirm or deny they are just some other poster trolling or if they are banned poster weaseling his way back in

[TJJJ]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

You have one flaw here...you don't HAVE to be Apostolic to be here. Remember this is not an ultra concerative board

Only one flaw, you are kind!

Yeah, I went and checked the rules of engagement!

Okay,..... I guess he can play for a while.

Now that I know he is not someone else's alias,......

I have scammed so many I guess I just thought he was scamming!

Ya gotta check ya know!

Although he could have been Benincasa, he is kinda from that area isn't he?

[RandyWayne]

Wii, we never really talked but I had no inclination to think you were scamming anyone. I'm too busy trying to figure out NOW's new persona. I suspect there are 2 or 3 who continually show up and make a lot of noise and claim martyrdom (after attacking like a pit bull), then vanish after a month or two only to show up under a new name.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by JoeCastorina

Bro. Badejo,
The picture you have painted here on AFF about what happened on AMF is dissapointing. Especially in light of the fact that many people here apparently cannot log on to AMF and see for themselves the tone of the discussion. Hopefully they will consider the combined testimony of those of us who did participate in the AMF tithing debate.

Brother Castorina, Ohio Pastor already came on here and said he didn't debate what I posted, only that He doesn't know how I was locked out. If He says He didn't lock me, I believe HIm, but for some strange reason I was not permitted to view the forum before being banned. He sent me an email, I was then able to sign onto the forum, and then the ban screen came up. I have not been the least bit untrutful.

Originally Posted by JoeCastorina

You asked for scripture to support the teaching of tithing. You asked for honest debate. I regret that you didn't have the opportunity to view my very lengthy post, Bro. Sander's post, Bro. Anderson's post, Bro. Wofford's post, and Bro. Sacker's post regarding the scriptural teachings of tithing. All were well written, documented, and contained many scriptures that support the view and illustrate the principle of tithing in the New Testament Church.

I too regret it. I can't see how oyu say I'm not interested in honest debate. Why would I be so adament about a moderated debated, with a nuetral overseer (Praxeas). I do not doubt that you had well written responses, and welcome them to be posted here.

In fact, I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO OBJECTION TO THE THREAD BEING POSTED HERE ON AFF, I cannot access it since I am banned.

Originally Posted by JoeCastorina

The scriptures ranged from OT principles that existed prior to the law,

There is only one example, Abraham, who paid only the tithes of the spoils of war, anything else is an assumption, not documented in scripture.

Originally Posted by JoeCastorina

to the purpose of tithing within the law,

to support the Levites, the fatherless, widow, and stranger. Always agricultural, and never given as money?

Originally Posted by JoeCastorina

to the acknowledgement of Christ,

We acknowledge Christ if we tithe, but not if we give freely?

Originally Posted by JoeCastorina

and finally the teachings of the Apostles.

I would be really interested to see this, since "tithe" and "tithing" do not even appear in any of the epistles, except for Hebrews, whom were not even sure of the author.

Originally Posted by JoeCastorina

Somehow though I have a feeling you would have rejected them all, continually asserting that tithing is an erroneous doctrine taught by erring preachers.

Brother, I'm willing to listen, but I'm not going to accept something unless someone has solid scriptural basis. I WAS of the teaching that you must tithe. Tithe or go to hell. Then when I brought up my objections (after a few years in the church, and study) I was called rebellious. A man was brought in to council me, who suggested, "Just do it until God shows you." Well, that's nice, and the brother is one I have alot of respect for, but thats not good doctrine. We could tell people all day long "Just drink the kool aid until God shows you He really told me to give it to you."

Originally Posted by JoeCastorina

Bro. Badejo, honest debate brings something to the table worth discussing. It doesn't come out of the shoot screaming "I win! I win! Prove to me I didn't win!"

Really, I never said that, or even had that attitude. I based my position on several things:
1)tithing was never money
2)we don't handle the tithe according to the scripture
3)the tithe was part of the law, and there are numerous scriptures in the new testament about the law being fulfilled with in Christ, and being done away with
4)we are not redeemed by corruptible things such as silver and gold but by the blood of Christ
5)The Jerusalem coucncil didn't tell Gentiles to tithe, Paul didn't teach them, who taught them?
etc.

You may not like my arguments, but what you guys are offering (Malachi 3:8) isn't much to build on. There is no levitical priesthood, no store house, the entire context of the scripure wasn't a rebuke of the people but of the preists, etc.

Furthermore, most of the AMF posters also post on AFF, they are welcome to post their public rebuttals in favor of tithing. What hinders them?

Originally Posted by JoeCastorina

To do that, and then come straight to AFF with this thread when you hadn't even been banned yet, makes me strongly suspect that you really weren't interested in honest discussion.

I came to AFF because AMF wanted to shut the topic down. I wonder if they didn't want to ban me simply to make the issue go away. I believe my position, why would I hold to something I don't believe. The fact that I was a trinitarian shows that I am somewhat interested in taking the scriptures, studying them, and getting in line with what I believe, even if it means loss of family, friends, or fellowship. Brother, I wasn't raised oneness, I gave up everything, because I'm interested in the truth.

Originally Posted by JoeCastorina

Under other circumstances I would be interested in carrying on this debate. However, I do not wish to take the time and draft another lengthy post on the matter. I had to edit mine three times yesterday to get it to fit within the alloted space.

I appreciate your time in drafting a response, I wish I could have read it, I also wish I could respond. But I would rather have the conversation here on the public forum.

Originally Posted by JoeCastorina

Furthermore, I again do not believe honest discussion is what you seek. I think you seek argument and have no intention of considering alternative views. This is the same mentality you approached the "speaking in tongues" thread with. Even though a plethora of scriptural principles, passages, and reasoning was presented to you, you chose to ignore them for what was silent.

Another issue, that I will get to.

Originally Posted by JoeCastorina

During that discussion I suggested that you spend some time studying proper hermenutical techniques. I even suggested a few books that I have found helpful. Again I strongly suggest you do this. Having a proper understanding of how to rightly divide the Word will only serve to deepen your faith and knowledge of the things of God. Your entire foundation in the discussion of tithing is wrong and shows a lack of proper hermenutics. The same was true in the discussion concerning speaking in tongues. I believe you will be greatly served by sharpening your interpretation skills.

I plan to continue studying. I need it and prayer. If my hermunetic is incorrect, I must needs correct it.

However, that won't be done through circular arguments. Simply saying "Your hermenutics are incorrect because they don't agree with my conclusion" is circular reasoning. It's true because AMF said it's true. No thanks.

Originally Posted by JoeCastorina

Again, I hate that the discussion came to this. Bro. Badejo, you have painted the men on AMF as bad men when that just isn't the case. You came out swinging, calling them false prophets who teach error, and refused to listen to sound arguments. Then you came to AFF to announce your mistreatment.

I AM ASKING FOR ONE POST OF MINE TO BE CUT AND PASTED FROM AMF WHERE I CALLED ONE A FALSE PROPHET, WHERE I USED A PERSONAL INSULT DIRECTED AT ANY POSTER. I strongly disagree with some of thier doctrine, I can't recall even one time insulting them as a person. Bro. Castorina, I am really suprised that you would say this.

Originally Posted by JoeCastorina

What a dissapointing end to what could have been a fruitful and educational discussion.

It doesn't have to end, but its obvious the majority of AMF wasn't going to discuss it behind closed doors. Even if I hadn't been banned when I posted on AFF (though it certainly seemed I already was), it was only a matter of time.

Bro Castorina, you are truly one of the most Christian men on AMF. I have respect for you, as well as all of the men at AMF. More for some, less for others. But I respect all of them as ministers of Jesus Christ, and if their going to heaven, I have no right to ........ them to hell. I am equally sorry that they don't take the same attidute towards those who disagree with them, as indeed SOME (not all) are quite willing to ........ others, myself included, for not agreeing with them.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by JoeCastorina

As long as it isn't against AMF rules I wouldn't be opposed to that happening. It was in response to specific points made by Bro. Badejo, so those would need to be posted as well in order to give my response context.

As I said in a previous post just now, I wouldn't mind ressurecting this discussion at a later date. AFTER the emotion of the situation has died out.

I am in favor of the entire thread being posted on AFF. Every post. And the response the ministers gave to me. I'm guessing they don't want that, and wouldn't want their real names used either. But if AMF admins okay it, please post the whole thread. Then AFF can see where I was insulted, but did not insult.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

As I mentioned if I had asked for scripture on the oneness of God, you would have given it.

If I had asked for scripture on baptism in Jesus name, you would have given it.

If I had asked for scripture on a number of topics, you would have given it.

But ask for scripture on tithing, and its insults, and "hogwash" logos. Give scripture as a talking point, and its brushed off with, "thats all you got?" No rebuttal, just a ban.

Bump- Just a reminder.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by deadeye

Kieth addresses contreversies on AMF all the time...and I dont remember him being banned....he sat out for a while if I remember right but not banned.

Kieth keeps a right spirit in his posts.
Jason on the other hand started that thread with a "in your face" attitude for the express reason to pick a fight....than he comes over here and whines about being banned



GROW UP JASON!!!!!

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

please quote one line of in your face attitude. the fact is some folks didnt like the subject. because it was not status quo

Bump for deadeye.................if that is your real name.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Ohio Pastor

Bro Badejo I will go on record right now to say that you sir are a liar.

Brother I forgive your false judmgent. I seriously did think I was banned, who wouldn't? I don't think you meant to make such a quick accusation, hopefully in the future you will a little more slow to speak on that wise.

I have no doubt that you are an honest man, and I don't doubt your integrity. I simply doubt that you are really interested in debating anything that doesn't line up with your doctrine. But, Ohio, that's okay, alot of pentecostals are like that, it doesn't make you a bad man, or unsaved.

I understand you've put your life blood into it, and don't want to be wrong. And for the record, I think tithing is a non essential sdoctrine, I believe you can teach tithes, and go to heaven, you will just be mistaken on that point.

As for AMF, I didn't bring my pom poms to the party, and I left my amen'ing megaphone at home, so I think I will be much more comfortable over here on AFF anyhow, but still welcome any rebuttals to my posistions.