Can Women Pastor ?

[Sister Alvear]

Originally Posted by rdp

I simply affirmed that I [& others more experienced in Greek than I] disagree w/ his exegesis of the texts that he appeals to in the book. Why don't you acknwoledge my positive comments about the man as well...inconsistent.

See ya' Thurs. sometime, LORD willing.....................

I only said I felt offended by what you said concerning his usage of Greek...

I have been looking for his book but cannot find it...

[Sister Alvear]

Dear one..I have nothing against you...

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

You knw dear one...I am not for and never have been for forward women...however to say women are not used of God in ministry is not right and does not even go along with the thought of the Bible...I came to Brazil so young and just a girl...however HE that called saw today...I did not....today I do not even have to minister there are so many but there was a time....I was all alone....
It was very difficult...today I am so blessed by Brother Alvear, he is so talented and such an awesome preacher...our soni s an awesome preacher also along with a few adopted sons...today I am very blessed...I am glad I followed and obeyed...

RDP isn't saying women aren't used -- he's referring to leadership positions within the church, particularly those where the woman would publicly teach other men.

I honor you for what you do. I don't think any of this thread is a personal attack on Sis. Alvear as much as a discussion about women preachers.

[Sister Alvear]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

RDP isn't saying women aren't used -- he's referring to leadership positions within the church, particularly those where the woman would publicly teach other men.

I honor you for what you do. I don't think any of this thread is a personal attack on Sis. Alvear as much as a discussion about women preachers.

yes, I understand...I have always said, I probablywas not HIS first choice...

just wanted all to know we are not fussing...

While I take up for those who work in his fields...I was a missionary BEFORE I married and had churches and workers however when I married Brother Alvear he did not tell me to do this I did it...I called a meeting and explained that up to that point I had been their leader but now I was married and Brother Alvear would lead them..and this is the way it has been...I know there can only be one head and I deeply respect my husband for he is a real man of God. He is kind to me and has always encouraged me to do anthing I feel from God. We work good together...actually he is a better leader than I am...but if they need a spare tire to fill in they know they can always count on me...

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by rdp

You one of 2 options w/ this word: Utter words, or preach. Tell me, can a woman pray in church, correct her childresn receive the Holy Spirit? Of course she can.

So what's the only other definition/translation? P-R-E-A-C-H!

That the point Paul would have use the word Preach
G2784
κηρύσσω
kērussō
kay-roos'-so
Of uncertain affinity; to herald (as a public crier), especially divine truth (the gospel): - preach (-er), proclaim, publish.

as he did in 1 Cor. 15:11 if he was infact refering to women preaching. As I have said before he was not speaking of women preaching when he say that a women is to keep silent in the church in 1 Cor 14:34. Again he is speaking of order in the service not whether a woman can or cannot minister if it falls in the order of the service.

[Sandy]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

That the point Paul would have use the word Preach
G2784
κηρύσσω
kērussō
kay-roos'-so
Of uncertain affinity; to herald (as a public crier), especially divine truth (the gospel): - preach (-er), proclaim, publish.

as he did in 1 Cor. 15:11 if he was infact refering to women preaching. As I have said before he was not speaking of women preaching when he say that a women is to keep silent in the church in 1 Cor 14:34. Again he is speaking of order in the service not whether a woman can or cannot minister if it falls in the order of the service.

Which verse 35 states clearly that be true what your saying here.

Perhaps we also need to consider what is written in 1st tim. chapter 2 is also speaking of the home also. Meaning the woman should not usurp authority over the man as well. Because He as Adam (Man) is the head of the house over Eve (woman). God ordaining him as such from the very beginning. Even in the Garden apparently. Which is the first place the woman did try to take authority over the man to begin with. By not listening to her huband and eating herself, then handing it to him for him to do also. Which true he did. More to that too. But this entire things is built around Adam and Eve, which is why I am encouraging others to seek the possiblity that what is written there has to do with the home also, and not the church as well. As so many have assumed.

If that be true, meaning I am not to usurp authority over my husband at all. Meaning my husband is ordained of Christ who is the head over him, to be the head over me. But does this have to do with what God might anoint a woman to do in the church? Or for the that matter, the church to be the head of the wives? good question huh? When that is not the churches jobe at all, but the husbands instead. And only when the husband accept what said church or organization teaches at the same time too, because His head is Christ, and not man. As I see it anyway. So while Paul was writing here what women should do, does that mean he was taking authority over women here. Or advising the husbands not to allow them to usurp authority over them instead as a bonifiide apostle of the church under christ as directed by Christ also. The husband of course, needing to heed this, as it is Gods Word. But then in turn not allowing the wife to usurp any authority over him either. If Adam had not allowed Eve to usurp authority over her in the beginning, maybe mankind would not be in the mess we are in today in the first place. On the other hand if Eve had asked Adam what to do, Adam telling her not to do anything until he or they both talked with God same thing. Right?

Just saying, maybe we should really look at some of this in a different light instead of what we have been taught by some to beleive instead? Not telling you men what to believe either, but just saying maybe you do need to seek God about it, cuz it could just be right after all. As it is true, many women do seem to have been ordained to do many things men say they should not be doing, that is for sure. Sister Alvear and others I know of are, as well. Being faithful in very difficult times before too. Not just physically but come against by the very church they serve often as well, for being in error. When indeed they just might have been called of God to do all they did after all.

I know my husband believed the same thing before, until some woman ministered to him as well, his changing his mind from then on. Knowing she was anointed.

And the problem I see with this, if God does anoint women, and men teach them they are not anointed, then just how responsible are they if that women does not do what they should have done all along. True she made the choice. But the man that taught her error, if indeed that is what it is of course, is also responsible for doing so not only with one, maybe, but possibly with many more as well. Anyway, that is what my husband and I both believe to be true about this as well as the other one everyone preaches to prevent women from often walking in any of the ministry gifts listed in Ephesians.

[Sister Alvear]

1 Cor. 15:11 was not talking about a woman preaching...Pual cited something that had been written to him to refute it... not to condone it.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

1) "Apologetic trick" remember when you said that? Nothing we are discussing here has anything to do with the field of Apologetics. Apologetics speaks in defense of issues much more broad (defending Christianity in general, existence of God, presenting a rational basis for faith, and exposing flaws of non-Christian worldviews. If you wanted to loosely use the word "apologist" sure. Anyhow. You won't ever (of course) admit or agree you had no clue when you said what you did.

You're simply wrong here. I knew full well what "Apologetic Trick" means, but believe what you will.

2) Historical-cultural context most assuredly can change the way we view/see/intepret the Text. I could list examples, but once I'll be brief and just explain to you these basic concepts of hermeneutics.

My overall point was that history/culture from the 1st century are so scanty, that's it's hard to state in concrete terms anything definitively...which you never responded to.

3) I'm not an apologist or scholar. I'm a student. I've never pretended to be such. You, however, have acted as a poser and I've simply called you out on it. The more you protest, the more you hang yourself.

Assertions are not evidence, but think what you will [i.e., "hang myself"], makes no difference to me. I do not think of myself as a "scholar." I have much to learn, I'm well aware, but I've learned much also. As you apparently have as well.

A correct hermeneutic is paramount and fundamentally important to understanding the authorial intent of 1 Timothy 2.

Which has been my point the entire time.

Very sick, headed to the doctor. Will most likely have to take a rain check here 'till I'm better. Blessings.................

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

That the point Paul would have use the word Preach
G2784
κηρύσσω
kērussō
kay-roos'-so
Of uncertain affinity; to herald (as a public crier), especially divine truth (the gospel): - preach (-er), proclaim, publish.

as he did in 1 Cor. 15:11 if he was infact refering to women preaching.

Words have definitions, & you have one of the clear definitions right in front of your face "Preach". Besides, you did not interact w/ my response above.

As I have said before he was not speaking of women preaching when he say that a women is to keep silent in the church in 1 Cor 14:34. Again he is speaking of order in the service not whether a woman can or cannot minister if it falls in the order of the service.

This is your theology, not the actual text. But, I've already posted a response to you, which you ignored my points. Will not sit here just repeat myself.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

RDP isn't saying women aren't used -- he's referring to leadership positions within the church, particularly those where the woman would publicly teach other men.

I honor you for what you do. I don't think any of this thread is a personal attack on Sis. Alvear as much as a discussion about women preachers.

Amen!