Can Women Pastor ?

[Jeffrey]

Even the Pharisees were appalled at Jesus for breaking the literal law by healing on the Sabbath

Just food for thought. We have a job to do. And a job in a 21st Century where attitudes toward women are much different. Even the most conservative of families still recognize the leadership of a man-led home, but there is a respect for a human being that is moved on by the Spirit to minister to others, which includes teaching. It doesn't rub anyone the wrong way today, except those still clinging to the letter of the law, and missing the whole spirit of it. That said, I think the jury is still out on what Paul was correcting: a universal prohibition of women teaching/preaching, or a unique situation where women were usurping authority within the church?

[Sister Alvear]

Originally Posted by Timmy

May I ask, how did you answer this woman?

yes, you may Timmy...I wept and told her that if her mother was lost then someone else was lost for not going to her...I am a believer in Acts 2:38...however to whom much is given much is required...t those that are given little, little is required..these things of destiny we must leave in the hands of a just God I just do all I can to reach every person possible in my life time with the means I have...

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

That's not a hermeneutical principle. In fact, you just made that up.

Say what?????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????????

Are you proposing that implicit verses override explicit doctrine??? Sheesh!

[Sister Alvear]

Originally Posted by rdp

I see, so LOL is sincere? You must be one happy lady!

I've told you ad nauseum that I could care less about church buildings & have taught home Bible studies in the slums outside to very poor folks. Care less about bldg.'s, yet you just keep repeating the same ol' things.

Deal w/ I Tim. 2. What does it mean when it says of women in the church, "I do not allow a woman to teach, or to excercise authority over a man"? Who in the world w/ an honest heart would read that & say, "O', God calls women to preach/teach"???????? Absolutely NO ONE.....................

Yes, I am noted to be a happy person even in the mist of some of life´s deepest trials...

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by rdp

Your "arguments" are nothing new, will try to learn how to copy/paste & respond if I have time [I'm embarrasingly computer illiterate!].

And I'm juuuuuuuuust as shocked! Tell me Jeffrey, what does history have to do w/ literal word definitons, or Greek syntax for example????? Not saying at all that culture plays a part in the text, but I'm speaking strict exegesis of the actual text, not loose exegesis. Culture will not judge us in eternity, but His Word will. Perhaps YOU need to do a little more scholarly work

I respected you as a scholar for the anti-women pastor position. I've just lost some respect for you. Greek syntax is only one part of the process of exegeting from the Text. One part. It's multi-dimensional. The meaning of the text goes through several layers of tests and responds to many questions of the exegete. Strict and loose? What are you even talking about? There's no such thing. You are hijacking terms of scholars, but you're an empty suit at this point. Nothing you've said above shows you know anything about hermeneutics. What is your experience in learning hermeneutics?

You have raised good points to consider in the argument. I'm just sad on this particular aspect, you are really just parroting points (which is okay to be honest) but posing as a scholar in the process.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Trouvere

1 Timothy 2:11-15 (King James Version)

11Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

13For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

15Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.


We don't need to flinch at these passages nor do we have to apply custom to them.
This is speaking of the husband and wife relationship clearly.
The word should be correctly translated from the greek wife not woman
and husband not man. A wife is not to usurp authority over her husband. She is not to teach him though they may share things and he may be open to her bible understanding. He is clearly the leader in the home. It is a very nice thing to have a home in biblical order.
Going back to the Adam and Eve relationship is the clue here is the clue.
Adam and Eve were the first couple. Then the word goes on to speak of childbearing. Women are not saved from sin by childbearing. They are promised a promise if they stay in the Biblical order of creation and has faith and love and holiness in her life. Lets be fair about the passage.

Good grief, here we go again! Not one single reputable translation adopts such a rendering [out of approximately 1000 linguistical scholars]....but YOU see something that they missed????

Man, at least come up w/ something new. The verse could not be plainer..............

[Sister Alvear]

Originally Posted by Trouvere

1 Timothy 2:11-15 (King James Version)

11Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

13For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

15Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.



yes, you may Timmy...I wept and told her that if her mother was lost then someone else was lost for not going to her...I am a believer in Acts 2:38...however to whom much is given much is required...t those that are given little, little is required..these things of destiny we must leave in the hands of a just God I just do all I can to reach every person possible in my life time with the means I have..

We don't need to flinch at these passages nor do we have to apply custom to them.
This is speaking of the husband and wife relationship clearly.
The word should be correctly translated from the greek wife not woman
and husband not man. A wife is not to usurp authority over her husband. She is not to teach him though they may share things and he may be open to her bible understanding. He is clearly the leader in the home. It is a very nice thing to have a home in biblical order.
Going back to the Adam and Eve relationship is the clue here is the clue.
Adam and Eve were the first couple. Then the word goes on to speak of childbearing. Women are not saved from sin by childbearing. They are promised a promise if they stay in the Biblical order of creation and has faith and love and holiness in her life. Lets be fair about the passage.

so true....

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by rdp

Say what?????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????????

Are you proposing that implicit verses override explicit doctrine??? Sheesh!

I'm saying that's not a hermeneutical principle as you suggested. You're making things up.

It's not implicit vs. explicit in exegeting the Text. That's not even the question (and it doesn't matter if you use 100 question marks). The texts are against each other in some great wrestling match. Some things that are explicit need to be understood what they are explicitly regarding.

Someone like you surely believes in implicit over explicit. How else do you explain that someone must speak in tongues to be saved

[Trouvere]

To Sister Alvear
I just want you to know that many in ministry greatly respect and love you.
I told Brother Holmes all the good things you said about his church. He really does love you and your family. Thanks for the kindness you have shown our family. We had a great time there and were treated like royalty. Brother Holmes even invited us to his table for dinner so before we hit the highway again we were treated to Chinese food. He also loaded us up with books and cd's. Thanks again.

Please read this:

11Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

13For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

15Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.


We don't need to flinch at these passages nor do we have to apply custom to them.
This is speaking of the husband and wife relationship clearly.
The word should be correctly translated from the greek wife not woman
and husband not man. A wife is not to usurp authority over her husband. She is not to teach him though they may share things and he may be open to her bible understanding. He is clearly the leader in the home. It is a very nice thing to have a home in biblical order.
Going back to the Adam and Eve relationship is the clue here is the clue.
Adam and Eve were the first couple. Then the word goes on to speak of childbearing. Women are not saved from sin by childbearing. They are promised a promise if they stay in the Biblical order of creation and has faith and love and holiness in her life. Lets be fair about the passage.[/QUOTE]

[Jeffrey]

You raise great points. But you're showing yourself to be a poser.