So, the man that people saw when they looked a Jesus, here on Earth before the crucifixion: that man never sinned, but he could have if he wanted to? He just never wanted to?
Hebrews 4:15
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Hebrews 2:18
For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted. James 1:14But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
(The message, same passage: 13 -15Don't let anyone under pressure to give in to evil say, "God is trying to trip me up." God is impervious to evil, and puts evil in no one's way. The temptation to give in to evil comes from us and only us. We have no one to blame but the leering, seducing flare-up of our own lust. Lust gets pregnant, and has a baby: sin! Sin grows up to adulthood, and becomes a real killer.)
Jesus was tempted. My experience is that I'm tempted by things I want or have at least some penchant for. It isn't really a temptation if I'm not interested to some degree in the thought. But Jesus didn't lust for the things he was tempted by. He suffered being tempted. He didn't just casually say, "nope" and brush it off every time he was tempted (see his prayer in the garden, for instance). And sometimes, at least, he must have wanted what he was tempted to do-fast 40 days, and have someone tell me I could change stones to bread, and I'd break my teeth trying!
OK. So, what was different about Jesus so he could successfully resist temptation, every time? Why can't I do that? Why can't anyone else who was ever born in the history of mankind do that?
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
One theory would be that he was not born under the law of sin, not having inherited the sin nature that Adam passed down since he was not fathered in a normal way.
He was God manifest in the flesh. God robed himself in that flesh. He could live sinless for the same reason that he could multiply loaves and fishes or speak and calm a storm.
One theory would be that he was not born under the law of sin, not having inherited the sin nature that Adam passed down since he was not fathered in a normal way.
He was God manifest in the flesh. God robed himself in that flesh. He could live sinless for the same reason that he could multiply loaves and fishes or speak and calm a storm.
OK. But doesn't that remove a good bit of the wonderfulness of his sinlessness? I mean, if he didn't even have that sin nature that the rest of us are saddled with, what's the big deal?
In short, his not sinning is just not very impressive!
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
It actually is pretty impressive that Jesus was without sin. We are remade into the image of Christ, reborn, so we should now have the same opportunity... except we (or at least, me) have too great a propensity toward the opposite.
A man with no "sin nature" not sinning? That's impressive? Suppose there was some kind of huge mistake, and I was born without a sin nature. Think I would sin anyway?
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
A man with no "sin nature" not sinning? That's impressive? Suppose there was some kind of huge mistake, and I was born without a sin nature. Think I would sin anyway?
I don't know, Timmy. Would you want to sin?
Would you connect closely enough to God that you would would be tempted, want to sin, be curious about sin maybe even, yet not lust for any sort of sin?
If so, would you, then, having overcome all these temptations, still willingly die in the place of a whole bunch of people who did what you were tempted to do but didn't? (If you wouldn't, oops, you just sinned. "He that knoweth to do good and doeth it not, to him it is sin...")
Adam was made without a sin nature. Didn't stop him. He still had eyes, he still had flesh, he was still tempted, and he still gave in. I don't know that I totally subscribe to that theory. It is just one that I've heard several times. But then again, I've also heard that God has a belly button.
Speaking of Adam, that story is bizarre in many ways, and I don't care if it's literal or not. Even if it is figurative, what are we supposed to learn from it? Let's break the story down:
God makes man and woman. Gives them a nice place to live. Has only one rule for them. Don't eat the fruit of that tree! Yes, that one over there, the one with the delicious looking fruit. It's the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. You eat? You die!
So, here are a couple of naive kids, having a great time running naked in a beautiful garden. They have no knowledge of good or evil. No knowledge of it! They know nothing of good! Or of evil! They don't know what evil is!
OK, I guess I've stressed that point enough.
So, now, was it a big surprise that the kids disobeyed God? They had no reason to suspect the serpent was lying. All they know is they have two conflicting stories. They don't even know about the concept of a "lie". And yet, we are to believe that they are justly punished for guessing wrong which story to believe?
Not to mention all their descendants. Punished for their bad guess.
Figurative or not, it's just weird.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
So, let me get this straight. We have these kids, having a great time in a sinless garden. Walking with God in the cool of the day. God talks to them directly. Interacts with them. Tells them not to do one thing. And one day Eve just happens to be near the one thing God says not to eat. And this creature says, "psst. Eve. Look at that fruit! Yum. You could be just like God." She likes fruit, and she loves God. She would like to be more like him, so she decides to try it. Then she takes some to Adam. Adam loves God, but he loves his wife too. She ate but she didn't die. So maybe she won't, but if she does, he would rather die with her than live with God without her. The Bible says "by one man sin entered the world". Why not by Eve? She made a mistake while she was trying to be more like God. Adam wasn't trying to be more like God. He chose Eve rather than God.
What would have happened if Adam hadn't taken what Eve gave him?
So, let me get this straight. We have these kids, having a great time in a sinless garden. Walking with God in the cool of the day. God talks to them directly. Interacts with them. Tells them not to do one thing. And one day Eve just happens to be near the one thing God says not to eat. And this creature says, "psst. Eve. Look at that fruit! Yum. You could be just like God." She likes fruit, and she loves God. She would like to be more like him, so she decides to try it. Then she takes some to Adam. Adam loves God, but he loves his wife too. She ate but she didn't die. So maybe she won't, but if she does, he would rather die with her than live with God without her. The Bible says "by one man sin entered the world". Why not by Eve? She made a mistake while she was trying to be more like God. Adam wasn't trying to be more like God. He chose Eve rather than God.
What would have happened if Adam hadn't taken what Eve gave him?
I dunno, but, actually, maybe we should be glad they did sin! Why? See this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy
Quote:
Originally Posted by TK Burk
Well, if they never died or began to age, then a woman could have children indefinitely. Imagine the hospital bills for the deliveries!!! If all people were always healthy, then the number of births until today I would think would be inestimable.
I estimated it, posted a gem on Black Hole Day (all posts 3/4/09 lost). I figured the population would double every 10 years (each woman having a baby every 5 years, or so). Starting 6000 years ago, this gives us a population today of 2 to the 600th power, or about 10 to the 200th. Googol squared. That's more people than there are subatomic particles in the galaxy, I think. Talk about crowded!
Thank goodness for the fall!
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
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