Can Women Pastor ?

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by rdp

Mt. 28:18-19, Jesus comes to His disciples declaring that He has all power in heaven & on the earth [other 2 "persons" in the "trinity" must not have too much!!]. He then declares, "Go ye THEREFORE [i.e., "for this reason"] and teach all nations.........."

Soooooooo many more, but this should suffice! Blessings.........

This example does not show what you need it to show. You would need a sentence after the "Go ye therefore and teach all nations..." That sentence would need to give a reason for why he was telling them to "go and teach all nations" The example you have given shows exactly what I have said all along. Whatever is before the therefore, is the reason. Whatever is after the therefore is what can be said as a consequence of that reason. Relating this to Isaiah 3, we see the reason in verse 16. (The list of jewelry is not here) Then in verse 17 and on we have what can be said as the consequences of that reason that was found in verse 16.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013

Thats what RDP and I were thinking too jfrog. We are trying to find out why Jeffrey seems to disagree with our interpretation of the verses.

Nitehawk, what rdp is arguing is that at least some of the reasons God was judging them were given in Isaiah 3:18-23. I have argued that the reasons for his judgments were given in Isaiah 3:14-16 and that Isaiah 3:17-26 are the judgments for what was spoken of in Isaiah 3:14-16.

[jfrog]

To whoever started this post:
I am sorry, because this issue on Isaiah 3 is totally unrelated to the thread topic and it has taken up so much more space than I thought it would. Therefore, if rdp and everyone else involved in it agrees, I will start a new thread on the Isaiah 3 topic tomorrow.

[Neck]

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

Can females be used in the office of a Christian pastor and in Eldership roles ?
Yes or No ? What say ye ?

If she can birth one she can be one!

[rdp]

Originally Posted by jfrog

This example does not show what you need it to show. You would need a sentence after the "Go ye therefore and teach all nations..." That sentence would need to give a reason for why he was telling them to "go and teach all nations" The example you have given shows exactly what I have said all along. Whatever is before the therefore, is the reason. Whatever is after the therefore is what can be said as a consequence of that reason. Relating this to Isaiah 3, we see the reason in verse 16. (The list of jewelry is not here) Then in verse 17 and on we have what can be said as the consequences of that reason that was found in verse 16.

First off, there IS a sentence after "....and teach all nations, BAPTIZING [note the suffix, "-ing" indicating continual action] all nations....."

Secondly, in Is. 3, you need to look up the term "tinkling," which the NIV accurately translates "tinkling ORNAMENTS." So, sorry jfrog, jewelry IS mentioned in the verse between "Because" & "therefore".

Honestly, I do not see how you can't see this......but, blessings on the journey anyway!

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by rdp

First off, there IS a sentence after "....and teach all nations, BAPTIZING [note the suffix, "-ing" indicating continual action] all nations....."

Secondly, in Is. 3, you need to look up the term "tinkling," which the NIV accurately translates "tinkling ORNAMENTS." So, sorry jfrog, jewelry IS mentioned in the verse between "Because" & "therefore".

Honestly, I do not see how you can't see this......but, blessings on the journey anyway!

So you honestly believe they were being punished for wearing jewelry?? Jewelry that God stated in another place that HE placed on them?

Nowhere in the Law of Moses does it prohibit wearing jewelry, so why would they be punished for something that was never prohibited?

[rdp]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

1 Corinthians is discussing headship. Sorry, but you being a man doesn't make you head over me. Not in any way.

I believe it's verse 8 that mentions Adam and Eve, inferring a marital relationship. If it had nothing to do with husband and wife, it would have have mentioned Paul and Anna instead.

I'm not interested in following rabbit trails you are inserting into the conversation. Once you cease throwing away other scripture given, we can move on to your scriptures. Honestly, whether or not those scriptures refer to church settings has nothing to do with women preaching or prophets preaching. I'm not denying those verses, but those verses don't stand alone as if they are the only examples that exist.

Marriage is never mentioned in I Cor., that "inference" is supplied via your theology...not the literal text!

I've addressed this before, but here we go again. When studying a given topic, proper hermeneutics demands that you start w/ passages that DIRECTLY deal w/ that topic, then proceed to passages that incidentally address the same topic. The incidentals NEVER overrule the direct, clear statements about the subject matter. I Tim. 2, I Cor. 14, I Tim. 3, etc. DIRECTLY ADDRESS the issue of women preaching "in the church"....which Paul explicity forbids.

What you're doing is attempting to find somewhere where it's said that prophecy is preaching, then attaching that to I Cor. 11, Deborah, Huldah, [none of which the actual text says that they "preached"], etc. & saying "See, God is for women 'preachers'". So you use OT Scriptures where MEN preached to erase the clear NT church teachings which directly deal w/ the topic!

Embarassingly poor scholarship.............

[rdp]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

Again, I said EVERY TIME they preached, did they do it from text? Nope. Yet that's what you claim preaching is.

Deborah's word's that came directly from God are scripture. Regardless as to whether or not those words were text means nothing. They were the very words of God, just like the ones you recite when you read from your King James.

And Moses wrote more than just Deuteronomy. What was he rehearsing when he wrote those previous books?

And why does it come down to a NT example of a woman? Can't ignore Deb anymore?

Paul may have forbid it, but Paul isn't the writer of the law, nor is he God, nor will he judge me.

Are you under the Mosaic Law? Do you offer animal sacrifices?

No, Paul will not judge you, but the Bible [2/3 of the NT that he wrote] will!

I've repeatedly affirmed that we can classify prophecy as a form of preaching. But in what form do we see this in the Bible? A pre-meditated sermon from the Scriptures? Verse pls.:_____________? Another blank unfilled by Joy!

Or, do we see prophecy repeatedly shown to be a spontaneous utterance as prompted by the Spirit of God? I've given numerous examples of the latter, & I'm just quoting from memory....God help you if I had my concordance & book w/ me that I wrote on this matter.

My point was that NEVER do we see a woman expositing from the Scriptures in congregational settings.......yet we see men doing it all the time! Hmmmm. Still waiting on you to deal w/ I Tim. 2........which apparently you cannot.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

I'll say it once more, but if you don't read it this time, don't bother responding.

The same word in the Hebrew used to define what those prophets did (read "preach") is the same Hebrew word used to define what Deborah was doing when she spoke the Word of God to Barak.

You don't have to accept it. You can throw it out, deny it, whatever you want. But I'm done discussing it with you.

Which reputable translation [i.e., Formal Correspondence] adopts such a rendering:____________? Why not?

And did Deborah "preach" him a sermon....or did she spontaneously reveal God's plans:_______________? Need some help? The latter!

[rdp]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

So you honestly believe they were being punished for wearing jewelry?? Jewelry that God stated in another place that HE placed on them?

Nowhere in the Law of Moses does it prohibit wearing jewelry, so why would they be punished for something that was never prohibited?

Wrong about the Law "nowhere" prohibiting jewelry. Deut. 7:25, "thou shall not desire the SILVER OR GOLD THAT IS ON THEM, NOR TAKE IT TO YOURSELF........" Ex., "PUT OFF NOW THY ORNAMENTS, THAT I MAY KNOW WHAT TO DO.............."

Let's just start there, since there are MANY more! Probably won't waste much more time w/ this...................