Sister they brought up harlot because Shechem had takien advantage of Dinah. The Brothers were upset not because of some teenage cooing and kissing, but because their Sister was raped. Just like Tamar, and Tamar was taken against her will. She even pleaded that it would not happen.
"If a man sees a young virgin, who has not given her word to be married to anyone, and he takes her by force and has connection with her, and discovery is made of it; Then the man will have to give the virgin's father fifty shekels of silver and make her his wife, because he has put shame on her; he may never put her away all his life."
What version is that??? Do you even believe in using anything other than the KJV???
Okay, I might be wrong about it. Perhaps the death penalty only applied to raping an engaged woman.
It just seems like punishment for the woman, too, to make her marry her rapist. I'm not sure I think God would do that.
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
My definition of rape isn't that it wasn't permissible, ergo it constituted rape. My definition of rape is that the woman was forced against her will, and I don't really see that with Dinah, as opposed to Tamar.
It happened, she was taken when no premisson was given by her family.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissBrattified
Okay, well my point was that it wasn't an allowance given under the law, but it may have been commonly practiced. I would assume that any husband could be merciful if he chose to be--but he would have had to keep the secret.
Deuteronomy 24:1-4 made the provision to put a wife away privately by giving her a git.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissBrattified
No, but it came up when a young man in our church came to church with a fresh tattoo, and my children noticed--and asked about it.
It wasn't my happiest day at the dinner table. When someone your children admires makes a foolish decision (IMO), you have to try to address the action without tearing down the person. *sigh*
My daughters see my tattoos because my arms are both covered, and they can see my wrists and hands. I explain to them the meaning of tattoos, and what they mean in society. I believe they understand.
__________________ "all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
What version is that??? Do you even believe in using anything other than the KJV???
I'm tired, and thought I would take the easy way out instead of going into the Hebrew. I have been in this thread way longer than any human being should. I was starting to forget what the thread was about. "Lawyers who make people get tattooed and defend Scientists who think DNA control our thoughts?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissBrattified
Okay, I might be wrong about it. Perhaps the death penalty only applied to raping an engaged woman.
It just seems like punishment for the woman, too, to make her marry her rapist. I'm not sure I think God would do that.
Sister, rape and pedophilia are two of the most disgusting of crimes.
The Old Testament was made up of Bedouin people who depended on having sons to take care of their legacy, and daughters who would bring in more sons. If a daughter was taken adavantage of whoever did it removed any possibility of her being able to be married. Therefore causing damage to the entire family.
__________________ "all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
It happened, she was taken when no premisson was given by her family.
Deuteronomy 24:1-4 made the provision to put a wife away privately by giving her a git.
My daughters see my tattoos because my arms are both covered, and they can see my wrists and hands. I explain to them the meaning of tattoos, and what they mean in society. I believe they understand.
Good! I think it's a mistake to say that tattoos have no social meaning or impact. One of my friends (and fellow teachers) has a tattoo on her ankle--and they've asked about that one, too. Different story with her, she got it before she was a Christian.
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
Good grief... it's like you are having two arguments... I would give up Miss, he is incoherent!
__________________ Everyone's Connected <-- Visit now and Easily Connect with your Facebook credentials!
Join EC, help make this site something worth its name. We need people to get on their and start discussion, post pictures, make and join groups! INVITE YOUR FRIENDS... ask me what I would do to get you to join and invite your friends!
Good grief... it's like you are having two arguments... I would give up Miss, he is incoherent!
His own argument is counter-productive to his goals! He wants the guilty to be sentenced to jail, and yet he doesn't want a good, honest lawyer to defend them. Says "I would rather allow someone with less scruples to have that job."
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
His own argument is counter-productive to his goals! He wants the guilty to be sentenced to jail, and yet he doesn't want a good, honest lawyer to defend them. Says "I would rather allow someone with less scruples to have that job."
He ain't never wrong!
__________________ Everyone's Connected <-- Visit now and Easily Connect with your Facebook credentials!
Join EC, help make this site something worth its name. We need people to get on their and start discussion, post pictures, make and join groups! INVITE YOUR FRIENDS... ask me what I would do to get you to join and invite your friends!
His own argument is counter-productive to his goals! He wants the guilty to be sentenced to jail, and yet he doesn't want a good, honest lawyer to defend them. Says "I would rather allow someone with less scruples to have that job."
Timmy,
Brother Benincasa is not trying to say he believes he is right in the sense that you are taking it. He has very firm, concrete ideals that he lives by and can't fathom walking away from those ideals or the way he holds his views. I perfectly understand his point of view and why he has it.
I also understand Baron and James's points of view, legally, that it is an American citizen's constitutional right to counsel, protection against self-incrimination and presumption of innocence.
Bro. Benincasa's thinking is, from an earlier post, that his FIL, who practiced law for 50 years never represented a client who claimed he was guilty. An attorney would be able to turn a client down if he claimed to be guilty but would represent himself as not guilty in the court room or in the case of being threatened with violence in some way by the client.
I was and am very aware of what the law affords, but I also saw another side. One example would be the defense team in the O.J. Simpson case who played the "race" card. All of that was and is incredulous to me and I didn't want to have a part in it.
Even the cases we represented and won for people that were innocent, as in the young boy whose father and step-mother were selling his nude pictures for gain - his son! - it was still emotionally draining. We were, of course, able to get full custody for the mother and only supervisory visitation for the father. On another note, the counselor told the mother and grandmother that in cases such as these, it is simply a matter of the offending party "apologizing" for their dark deed, which causes the victim to begin a healing process. In the case of small children it is necessary for them to have this as they will blame themselves in some way for what happened.
These cases go on for months and you have it on your mind every day. In the little boy's case, every time you opened the file the pictures were there! The client is sitting and waiting to see the attorney and sharing all of the negative things going on in the boy's life and in the life of the family being so stressed by the situation. That is also draining.
Whether innocent or guilty - whether the attorney is honest or unscrupulous - the fact remains - the law stands solid and it's a good thing for the citizens of this country.
We would then need to decide, individually, whether we want to be extensively involved in the process. I opted out, James and Baron opted in. There are some made for the task and others that can't hold up under it.
I couldn't fathom the police officer going against his oath and wanting to find a loophole. I didn't want to work with him. He was supposed to protect me and he failed. I was biased and knew that I would not change and could not change my viewing. We can get into Christian repentance, forgiveness, and restitution, but that isn't the point we are discussing right now.
Going a little further, some years later, I had a traffic violation and my boss came into my office to offer the services of his attorney. I think I would have paid around $100 to plead "not guilty" and have it written it off my record.
I said, "But, I was guilty." He laughed and said, "It doesn't matter, if you plead not guilty and pay, my attorney will get it dismissed." And me again, "But, I was guilty!" He said, "Forget it then!" and walked out of my office. I did the right thing, took a Defensive Driving course and had the ticket dismissed. What is so hard about that? lol
Anyway, in closing, I agree with these words I ran across:
Quote:
[I]f you're a decent human being and you've been a victim of crime yourself and you have family members that have been victims of crime, you feel tremendous turmoil. We're supposed to say, "It's not our job to worry about society, and everyone is entitled to a defense." That's all true, at an intellectual level, but at an emotional level, this takes a terrible toll, which is why some lawyers don't want to know if their clients are guilty.
But still, his recommendation, if followed, would result in fewer crooks in jail, not more, assuming that the Spirit-filled Christians lawyers he is advising are, in fact, honest and work ethically within the law. (And I do believe the ones here on AFF are! ) It's the unscrupulous that would work the angles and get their client off the hook, whatever it takes.
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
I'm not sure I think God would do that.
well my point was that it wasn't an allowance given under the law, but it may have been commonly practiced. I would assume that any husband could be merciful if he chose to be--but he would have had to keep the secret.
He ain't never wrong!
) It's the unscrupulous that would work the angles and get their client off the hook, whatever it takes.
Linear Mode
