How in the world did this conversation turn into another preacher bashing thread?
Seriously?
Every single thread ends up being the same thing.
Preachers are dinosaurs, on the verge of extinction.
The UPC is the Great Whore of Revelation.
Church is the greatest evil in the world.
It's time for me to take another extended break, I think.
I guess it's surprising to me that you'd be so surprised that this happened.
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Daniel 12:3 And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the firmament; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars for ever.
I often wonder how God feels when he sees the UC (I will use the group I am most associated with so no one will say I am throwing stones at some other group) that drive expensive cars, take endless vacations, live in mansions, have more than they need and some little Christian in some remote country that never heard the JN message yet is tortured to death for what they do know..
And have no doubt about it I AM A FIRM believer in ACTS 2:38…my life is a living example of how much I believe it…One thing I do know God will now say well done UNLESS we have done well…
I shutter to think of Judgment Day...I hope I am no where near those that bleed and died for what they believed to be truth. I have no scars to show...
Just today after arriving home from a long hard trip exhausted my telephone rang and someone asked for me to send them a preacher to baptized them...they are on the other side of Brazil and it is expensive to send someone that far away...
I wept because I told them to wait I did not have the money...
God sees all that is wasted...we will not only be judged by Acts we will be judged by every word and deed...
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In conversations with Oneness preachers, about recent Christian marytrs, I was stunned to hear them say that they (the OP preachers) were not God, and wouldn't judge whether or not a martyred minister who was Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian or any other denomination was going to Hell.
Of course, the the implication is that those martyrs had not been baptized in Jesus Name, and had not experienced Holy Ghost baptism, evidenced by glossolalia.
Why would they say that?
We teach that the only proper response to the Gospel is found in Acts 2:38. Wouldn't that mean that anyone who doesn't follow that plan - even a Christian martyr - is lost?
My theory? I think there is a difference between thinking we have the best interpretation of the plan of the salvation and thinking we have the only interpretation. I think deep down, most people realize how unlikely it is that God let millions of extremely Godly men and women be lost after honestly seeking the truth. That's a hard pill for some to swallow. But, does that mean we shouldn't teach that our way is THE way? No. But should we be careful before we condemn others to hell? Yes.
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Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it. — André Gide
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds... - Ralph Waldo Emerson
In conversations with Oneness preachers, about recent Christian marytrs, I was stunned to hear them say that they (the OP preachers) were not God, and wouldn't judge whether or not a martyred minister who was Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian or any other denomination was going to Hell.
I agree with this statement. IMO it doesn't matter what religion we are, we have no right to judge where someone will go. Judge not - lest you be judged.
My theory? I think there is a difference between thinking we have the best interpretation of the plan of the salvation and thinking we have the only interpretation. I think deep down, most people realize how unlikely it is that God let millions of extremely Godly men and women be lost after honestly seeking the truth. That's a hard pill for some to swallow. But, does that mean we shouldn't teach that our way is THE way? No. But should we be careful before we condemn others to hell? Yes.
That is very wise. Good post OTF.
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13 You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. 14 The entire law is summed up in a single command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other. Galatians 5:13-15 (NIV)
My theory? I think there is a difference between thinking we have the best interpretation of the plan of the salvation and thinking we have the only interpretation. I think deep down, most people realize how unlikely it is that God let millions of extremely Godly men and women be lost after honestly seeking the truth. That's a hard pill for some to swallow. But, does that mean we shouldn't teach that our way is THE way? No. But should we be careful before we condemn others to hell? Yes.
My theory? I think there is a difference between thinking we have the best interpretation of the plan of the salvation and thinking we have the only interpretation. I think deep down, most people realize how unlikely it is that God let millions of extremely Godly men and women be lost after honestly seeking the truth. That's a hard pill for some to swallow. But, does that mean we shouldn't teach that our way is THE way? No. But should we be careful before we condemn others to hell? Yes.
Unlikely? Yes, I agree. But do you claim that it is true, nonetheless? I'm not sure which side you're arguing, here, Fritz! If you believe your way is THE way, then everyone else IS going to hell, no? And if it's true, it doesn't do anyone any good to tiptoe around it, which I think was Edward's point. Speak the truth! (As you see it. )
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
I think many that say they believe the three step message don't.
I think of exuse's many use to say someone might get to heaven and not have done Acts 2:38 just as we prescribe it.
I have heard 3 step ministers talking of the "light doctrine" and others proclaiming the message taught by SG Norrris (something like the wicked the rightous and the holy)
I do not believe either of these doctrines. I don't have to have a doctrine that helps me at funerals, so I can tell loved one that loved ones will be OK.
If they knew Jesus and trusted in him as Savior, they will be with their Lord.
Judgement does not belong to me, EVER.
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God has lavished his love upon me.
Yea my pastor preached a funeral for my wifes great aunt he did not even know the lady and stated in his word that he believed she was in heaven I thought for sure I was not going to hear that from him she did not even go to church I figured he would of just left that out all together. I do not think he said it to be nice I really think down in his heart he believed she is going to be in heaven
In conversations with Oneness preachers, about recent Christian marytrs, I was stunned to hear them say that they (the OP preachers) were not God, and wouldn't judge whether or not a martyred minister who was Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian or any other denomination was going to Hell.
Of course, the the implication is that those martyrs had not been baptized in Jesus Name, and had not experienced Holy Ghost baptism, evidenced by glossolalia.
Why would they say that?
We teach that the only proper response to the Gospel is found in Acts 2:38. Wouldn't that mean that anyone who doesn't follow that plan - even a Christian martyr - is lost?
At the very least, someone who has placed their faith in Jesus with living faith, is justified. That is significant in and of itself. Of course people need baptism and new life that the spirit brings, but I think we often overlook the significance of justification.
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Please pray for India
My personal mission is to BRING people into a right relationship with God, GROW them up to maturity and SEND them back into the world to minister.
If you believe your way is THE way, then everyone else IS going to hell, no? And if it's true, it doesn't do anyone any good to tiptoe around it, which I think was Edward's point. Speak the truth! (As you see it. 
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