No More Walls blog show seeks Apostolic Unity

[SDG]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Is this true, Dan? Are you a wolf in sheep's clothing?

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Of course not.

Mizpeh do you really believe in the heretical doctrine that sins are only forgiven after repentance + baptism?

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I've been called a heretic by you before, Dan. I'm immune now!

By my count, Mizzy, it is you that has avoided a direct question.
Sometimes myths and false witness can be perpetuated if we continue to repeat them.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

By my count, Mizzy, it is you that has avoided a direct question.
Sometimes myths and false witness can be perpetuated if we continue to repeat them.

Mizpeh do you really believe in the heretical doctrine that sins are only forgiven after repentance + baptism?

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...&postcount=117

Has marriage made you forgetful? I answered that question in another one of your threads (New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentance) awhile ago. You never responded to it.

Are you calling me a false witness? You called me a heretic (a fabricator of a new fangled doctrine) and in response to your accusation, I posted why I believe what I believe with a syllogism using scriptures. Would you like the links? (not that I'm expecting you to respond)

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...32&postcount=1

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...&postcount=183

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...&postcount=198

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...&postcount=195

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...&postcount=197

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...&postcount=233

Funny, Dan, in the thread I gave the links to you didn't come right out and use the word, heretic, but the meaning was there which in my opinion is the same thing. Now you have become much bolder and are calling the three-stepper doctrine heretical. Interesting.

I provided other links above which prove this so-called "new fangled, heretical doctrine" has been around for almost 2000 years! Now who's trying to rewrite/revise history, Dan?

[jeffadams]

Wow, I listened today and it was a very informing show on soul winning! Good Job Guys!

[Hesetmefree238]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

For me personally, the three-step doctrine has brought nothing but confusion and frustration to my life. While the three-steps are actually good and should be followed, the confusion that results from this doctrine is what makes me angry.

I tried so hard to find God through the three-step doctrine. I loved the doctrine and was taught it by well meaning loving parents but those three-steps had me horribly confused and it wasn't until I stopped worrying so much about steps and just fell into the arms of Christ did God start working in my life.

Personally I don't like the doctrine and I would send a new convert to a Baptist church before I would send them to my local UPC.

PLEASE! I speak from the perspective of a Jesus name baptized,
Holy Ghost filled, former Southern Baptist. I was raised Southern Baptist.
I grew up with a dislike of Pentecostals. On my first visit to a UPC church
the Lord Jesus gave me a holy visitation that I had never felt or experienced
in my Southern Baptist church. I quickly came to realize that there was
something at work in the UPC church that was missing in the Baptist church
that I grew up in. The rest of the story is that I surrendered to Christ,
got baptized in Jesus name, and the Lord filled me with the Holy Ghost.
This has been the greatest thing that ever happened to this former
Southern Baptist.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Hesetmefree238

PLEASE! I speak from the perspective of a Jesus name baptized,
Holy Ghost filled, former Southern Baptist. I was raised Southern Baptist.
I grew up with a dislike of Pentecostals. On my first visit to a UPC church
the Lord Jesus gave me a holy visitation that I had never felt or experienced
in my Southern Baptist church. I quickly came to realize that there was
something at work in the UPC church that was missing in the Baptist church
that I grew up in. The rest of the story is that I surrendered to Christ,
got baptized in Jesus name, and the Lord filled me with the Holy Ghost.
This has been the greatest thing that ever happened to this former
Southern Baptist.

How did you know that the Lord filled you with the Holy Ghost? Didn't you already receive the Spirit of Christ when you believed?

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Hesetmefree238

PLEASE! I speak from the perspective of a Jesus name baptized,
Holy Ghost filled, former Southern Baptist. I was raised Southern Baptist.
I grew up with a dislike of Pentecostals. On my first visit to a UPC church
the Lord Jesus gave me a holy visitation that I had never felt or experienced
in my Southern Baptist church. I quickly came to realize that there was
something at work in the UPC church that was missing in the Baptist church
that I grew up in. The rest of the story is that I surrendered to Christ,
got baptized in Jesus name, and the Lord filled me with the Holy Ghost.
This has been the greatest thing that ever happened to this former
Southern Baptist.

out of curiosity, a couple of questions:
1 Did you have a personal relationship with Jesus while attending that Baptist Church?
2 If so, how do you look at what you had or had experienced as a Baptist? Looking back, do you now consider yourself lost and on the way to Hell, a sinner, and not a child of God all the while you were in the Baptist church?

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Funny, Dan, in the thread I gave the links to you didn't come right out and use the word, heretic, but the meaning was there which in my opinion is the same thing. Now you have become much bolder and are calling the three-stepper doctrine heretical. Interesting.

I provided other links above which prove this so-called "new fangled, heretical doctrine" has been around for almost 2000 years! Now who's trying to rewrite/revise history, Dan?

Good point. I also had noticed myself Dan's anti-3stepper rhetoric has gone to another level. Now we're "heretics", I see.
Well, they called Jesus worse names than that, so I guess being called a heretic is relatively trivial.
But I'm reminded of Pauls words in Acts 24:14:

" ... after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers"

Nevertheless...that kind of rhetoric is EXACTLY WHY the NoMoreWalls group is right to keep out 1-steppers such as Dan. Certain of these people say they want a seat at the table... but why would they want to have a seat at the table with people they consider heretics?

Furthermore, the goal of the militant 1-steppers is not merely to have fellowship with those who advocate 3-stepper doctrine, but to work toward eradicating 3-stepper doctrine. Their idea of "Apostolic unity" is an environment in which we'd have the eventual elimination of 3-step doctrine.
Not. going. to happen.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Furthermore, the goal of the militant 1-steppers is not merely to have fellowship with those who advocate 3-stepper doctrine, but to work toward eradicating 3-stepper doctrine. Their idea of "Apostolic unity" is an environment in which we'd have the eventual elimination of 3-step doctrine.

And they have taken on the same divisive spirit as Westburg and those who pushed the AS that caused many onesteppers to leave the UPC in 1992.

I wonder if Loren Yaden would agree with such a cause?

[Sam]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

...
Furthermore, the goal of the militant 1-steppers is not merely to have fellowship with those who advocate 3-stepper doctrine, but to work toward eradicating 3-stepper doctrine. Their idea of "Apostolic unity" is an environment in which we'd have the eventual elimination of 3-step doctrine.
Not. going. to happen.

I guess I'm not a militant one-stepper then.
I don't want to eliminate 3-steppers.
I think we can agree to disagree without being disagreeable.
Just as I have the right to believe in one-step salvation, others have the right to believe in three-step salvation. I fellowship people who do not agree with me on everything. I fellowship with Roman Catholics and Lutherans who believe in baptismal regeneration. So, I can fellowship a Pentecostal or Apostolic who believes "born of water" means "water baptism" like the Douay Bible footnote for John 3:5. I financially support missionaries who are three-steppers. I may not agree with everything they preach but they believe it and they are being used of God. In my opinion, the family of God is a lot larger than some of us have been led to believe.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

And they have taken on the same divisive spirit as Westburg and those who pushed the AS that caused many onesteppers to leave the UPC in 1992.

I wonder if Loren Yaden would agree with such a cause?

Not all of us are that way.
Don't paint us all with that broad brush.

I have never been licensed or ordained in the UPC, but over the years have been part of several UPC churches as I've lived in different areas. In my opinion, I wish they all had believed in, adhered to, and practiced the fundamental doctrine statement as published in 1945.