Grace Verse Legalism

[Withdrawn]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Does the Pentecostal church as a whole miss the mark on teaching about grace? I haven't heard it preached much in the chuch except towards the sinners. "God's Grace will cover any sin you have"...but the saints live in fear or losing their salvation. Does that make sense?

I attended a ALJC/UPCI church for 22 years and can't remember ONE message preached about the grace of God. Sure it was mentioned here and there, but I must say it appears to have been methodically avoided. I think that the responses here characterize what I think the reasons are as well. I think either pastors just don't have a grip on what God's grace really is and how it applies to the church, or they're afraid of losing control of the people. Actually, I think it's a blend of both, with the reason that they don't seek out an understanding is because they would rather control. Sounds harsh, I know.

[Neck]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Grace is NOT God's septic tank that catches all our trash.
Grace gives victory over sin.

LEGALISM IS NOT OBEYING WHAT IS COMMANDED IN THE NEW COVENANT THAT IS GRACE WITHIN ITSELF.

Grace is what covers sin after you have received the promise and repent again for those sins.

Legalism does not cover sin it creates an ability for man to punish what man legislates as sin.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by jaamez

I attended a ALJC/UPCI church for 22 years and can't remember ONE message preached about the grace of God. Sure it was mentioned here and there, but I must say it appears to have been methodically avoided. I think that the responses here characterize what I think the reasons are as well. I think either pastors just don't have a grip on what God's grace really is and how it applies to the church, or they're afraid of losing control of the people. Actually, I think it's a blend of both, with the reason that they don't seek out an understanding is because they would rather control. Sounds harsh, I know.

This might sound harsh as well, but here goes. I think that most pastors have a fair grip on what grace is, but only use it when cases come up where they need it. It also could be a thing the keep secret to keep control on saints or it might come down to they are not sure how to balance teaching on Grace with teachings on submission to authority (cause that is the candy stick they preach on).

With real Grace in the picture it can blow a hole in the 3-steppers mode of salvation. But even still I think a great disservice is being done. People live in fear cause they are scared of God striking them down for something when if they knew that Grace really exists (after salvation too) that allows them to repent and be free from it. Grace is one of the greatest messages in the Bible and the least preached in our circles.

**Disclaimer**
My church is pretty balanced when it comes to this, I feel.

[Fiyahstarter]

Originally Posted by 1399

This is why my salvation is "complete in Him."

I am not more saved once I evolve into being clean shaven.
I am not more saved once I throw away my shorts.

Doing these things can help me with my daily walk with the Lord in the way that there is a Holy commitment involved, if I do these things to honor the Lord.

The minute the intent of my heart becomes to preserve my salvation or to please others by doing these things, my commitment is vain religiosity.

The UPCI churches I've attended make it impossible to do these things for the sole reason of honoring the Lord because it is expected and often mandated-- violating the Spirit of Grace by which we have been called.

Well spoken. I back these thoughts.

[Neck]

Originally Posted by jaamez

I attended a ALJC/UPCI church for 22 years and can't remember ONE message preached about the grace of God. Sure it was mentioned here and there, but I must say it appears to have been methodically avoided. I think that the responses here characterize what I think the reasons are as well. I think either pastors just don't have a grip on what God's grace really is and how it applies to the church, or they're afraid of losing control of the people. Actually, I think it's a blend of both, with the reason that they don't seek out an understanding is because they would rather control. Sounds harsh, I know.

If Grace were preached and taught in the UPCI legalistic churches, then when a woman were to cut her hair.

Then repent...They would have to put her back into the choir the moment she repented for cutting her hair.

But because the other local ministers within a district would notice these women with cut hair.

The pastors chose not to preach or teach the Grace of God.

They chose to preach it is a sin.. (What without repentance?)

It is not only about show me your walk with God by how you look and measure to my contentious standards.

It is about how their church looks to the other churches in the district.

It these men were to punish real sin the way they punish the standards list, we would all be looking at a video screen each Sunday.

Because no one would be worthy to preach, sing, take up an offering or teach a class.

It is all about looks period......

[Fiyahstarter]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Does the Pentecostal church as a whole miss the mark on teaching about grace?

I'll have to go with a big "YES" on this one. And they miss the mark on LOVE too.

[KWSS1976]

Same here just heard romans preached the other day I believe since the 3 years I have been at this church i attend. I almost fell out of my seat and the way it was talked about it almost sounded like gods grace is good enough no repenting. baptism,holyghost....etc,etc

[Michael The Disciple]

Grace is not like most seem to think one locked in concept. The Greek word "Charis" means "favor". We must go from there. How does the Biblical writer use the word?

The concept we hold cannot disagree with the actual teachings of Jesus and the Apostles. Most teaching I know of about it does that very thing.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Does the Pentecostal church as a whole miss the mark on teaching about grace? I haven't heard it preached much in the chuch except towards the sinners. "God's Grace will cover any sin you have"...but the saints live in fear or losing their salvation. Does that make sense?

A friend and I were talking this past week about this very thing. The fact is...a sinner who is a whore or pedophile can walk in off the street and get the Holy Ghost and they put modest clothing on them, rejoice and use them freely. You let a saint "who should have known better" slip and fall, make a mistake or sin and you are forever damned to "prove yourself" and even then - you are not worthy to be used. This is not just about me that I am talking...the discussion was done with another leadership person who was dealt the same hand and is the one who stated the above dilemna.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by jaamez

I attended a ALJC/UPCI church for 22 years and can't remember ONE message preached about the grace of God. Sure it was mentioned here and there, but I must say it appears to have been methodically avoided. I think that the responses here characterize what I think the reasons are as well. I think either pastors just don't have a grip on what God's grace really is and how it applies to the church, or they're afraid of losing control of the people. Actually, I think it's a blend of both, with the reason that they don't seek out an understanding is because they would rather control. Sounds harsh, I know.

There is that word again "CONTROL"