New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentance

[SDG]

From another thread:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Okay, prosecutor. I'll be even more to the point, if that is possible.

When we first come to the Lord our sins are not forgiven at repentance. They are forgiven at baptism through a work of the Spirit and the blood of Christ.

Any sins we may commit after our new birth are forgiven at repentance when the blood of Christ, once again, washes away our sins. We don't need to be rebaptized every time we sin after our initial baptism in Jesus name.

Sniff ... sniff ... sniff ...

FALSE DOCTRINE ALERT!!!!

You stand with the Roman church on that one, Mizzy ...

Not even Bernard or most of the 3 step crowd has gone that haywire.

Do you agree w/ Mizpeh in her new-fangled 3 step doctrine that our sins are not forgiven at repentance?

[Rhoni]

Daniel,

Don't be so hard on "M". Truth is many of our Apostolic friends do not know the scriptures or how to defend their belief system.

*hugs*
Rhoni

[Tim Rutledge]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

From another thread:

Sniff ... sniff ... sniff ...

FALSE DOCTRINE ALERT!!!!

You stand with the Roman church on that one, Mizzy ...

Not even Bernard or most of the 3 step crowd has gone that haywire.

Do you agree w/ Mizpeh in her new-fangled 3 step doctrine that our sins are not forgiven at repentance?

Our sins are remitted, after we are baptised in Jesus name, following repentance.

[timlan2057]

Hmmm ... let's see, I guess we need a new song.

"At the Cross" isn't good enough.

At the creek,
At the creek,
Where I first saw the light
And the burdens of my heart rolled away,
It was there by water I received my sight
And now I go sputtin' all the day ...

By the way, we've heard that little catch phrase in all our lives ... another UPC saying that sounds good and soothes the masses but no one really knows what it means.

Now will one of you great theologians elaborate well and be specific and tell me what the difference is between FORGIVENESS and REMITTANCE?

[timlan2057]

Actually, whether admitted or not ... forget all this stupid arguing about where the blood is applied.

To a "three-stepper", your sins are not forgiven until you've spoken in tongues.

If not ... why not?

Will any three stepper say you can go to heaven without speaking in tongues?

Well, if your sins are forgiven, remitted or whatever in the first or second step but you never take the third ...

Doesn't THAT mean all your sins are forgiven but you can't go to heaven because you haven't spoken in tongues?

To keep from being placed in a ridiculous position, a "three stepper" must believe your sins are not forgiven until you've spoken in tongues - that in itself being a ridiculous position.

Once again ... if not - why not?

[Tim Rutledge]

Originally Posted by timlan2057

Actually, whether admitted or not ... forget all this stupid arguing about where the blood is applied.

To a "three-stepper", your sins are not forgiven until you've spoken in tongues.

If not ... why not?

Will any three stepper say you can go to heaven without speaking in tongues?

Well, if your sins are forgiven, remitted or whatever in the first or second step but you never take the third ...

Doesn't THAT mean all your sins are forgiven but you can't go to heaven because you haven't spoken in tongues?

To keep from being placed in a ridiculous position, a "three stepper" must believe your sins are not forgiven until you've spoken in tongues - that in itself being a ridiculous position.

Once again ... if not - why not?

Ye must be born again of the Spirit. If you do not have the Holy Ghost you are none of his.

When repentance is coupled with baptism in the Name of Jesus, the curse of sin is lifted, and you are born of the water. John 3:3-5 very plainly states this is essential to see and enter into the Kingdom of God.

1st PETER 3:21.. Baptism saves us.

What is your understanding of the above verses?

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by timlan2057

Actually, whether admitted or not ... forget all this stupid arguing about where the blood is applied.

To a "three-stepper", your sins are not forgiven until you've spoken in tongues.

If not ... why not?

Will any three stepper say you can go to heaven without speaking in tongues?

Well, if your sins are forgiven, remitted or whatever in the first or second step but you never take the third ...

Doesn't THAT mean all your sins are forgiven but you can't go to heaven because you haven't spoken in tongues?

To keep from being placed in a ridiculous position, a "three stepper" must believe your sins are not forgiven until you've spoken in tongues - that in itself being a ridiculous position.

Once again ... if not - why not?

They realize that denying forgiveness of sins at repentance is problematic and makes no sense which is why I had to ask and ask and re-ask, (thus the comment "ok prosecutor") the same question. Instinctively they know that to say "yes your sins are forgiven at repentance" would be equal to saying one is saved, thus the continual dodging of the question.

[Baron1710]

Tim R.

Simple one question.

Are your sins forgiven when you ask God to forgive you at repentence?

[Tim Rutledge]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

Tim R.

Simple one question.

Are your sins forgiven when you ask God to forgive you at repentence?

When it is coupled with Baptism, in the Name of the One that died for you.

1st Peter 3:21 and John 3:3-5. What is your take on thiese scriptures?

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by Tim Rutledge

When it is coupled with Baptism, in the Name of the One that died for you.

1st Peter 3:21 and John 3:3-5. What is your take on thiese scriptures?

I am going to save us both a lot of time and just post the dance from last night. feel free to skip to the end and join Rome, or be converted and become a Christian.

Originally Posted by Baron1710

Weird. What happened to those forgiven sins? Why are they still standing between the one who repented and God? did god not really forgive them at repentance?

Originally Posted by Baron1710

What happens when one repents?

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Where in the bible can I find remission at repentance and receiving the Spirit at faith?

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Because "making a decision for Christ" is not always the same as repentance.

Originally Posted by Baron1710

Se you wanna run away anytime you are confronted with these passages and demand that everyone else harmonize that with one interpretation of acts 2:38, instead of interpreting Acts 2:38 by the rest of Scripture.

Originally Posted by mizpeh

No doubt repentance is linked to salvation but it is not salvation in and of itself.

Originally Posted by tstew

Yes, but what verse equates forgiveness with salvation? Is that all salvation means to you?

Originally Posted by Baron1710

Again you refuse to start with repentance you want to run ahead and throw other things in there.

Simple question does God forgive your sins when you Repent?

Originally Posted by Baron1710

If sin is the issue and sin is forgiven the logical result is salvation.

Originally Posted by tstew

I'm not talking the logical deduction...that is dangerous ground. I'm talking the scriptural position that salvation is simple forgiveness and no more.

Originally Posted by tstew

There is danger in logic outside of a Scriptural assertion in my opinion. If the very elect are going to be deceived, by definition it will be a function of their wrong thinking.

Originally Posted by Baron1710

Well lets walk through this does God forgive our sins when we ask him to in repentance?

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Initial forgiveness is at baptism. It involves a Spiritual circumcision in which the body of sins is totally removed, blotted out, washed away. After this initial remission any further forgiveness is upon confession and repentance with the blood washing away the new sins.

Originally Posted by Baron1710

Pay real close attention, don't change the question don't answer another one.

Does God forgive our sins when we ask forgiveness in repentance?

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

I choose maybe, sorta, or "I don't want to answer a question that you already know my answer to."

Originally Posted by Baron1710

I guess I don't know. Apparently it is difficult to choose.

Originally Posted by Baron1710

Still does not address the question, and the reason you won't is clear.

Originally Posted by mizpeh

You're the one who went to an Apostolic Bible college, not me. You must know that there is a difference between the initial forgiveness of sins and any further remission of sins once a believer has become a part of the body of Christ. 1 John 1:7 is written to Christians in all their developmental stages not to sinners.

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Hmmmm, I thought I was very clear. Crystal clear even. What don't you understand?

Originally Posted by Baron1710

You refuse to say that God doesn't forgive sins at repentance yet you refuse to say he does. He either does or doesn't. You made a comment that I went to Bible College, that is when the light bulb came on for me, sitting in Segraves class on Romans.

I am out for the night later.

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Okay, prosecutor. I'll be even more to the point, if that is possible.

When we first come to the Lord our sins are not forgiven at repentance. They are forgiven at baptism through a work of the Spirit and the blood of Christ.

Any sins we may commit after our new birth are forgiven at repentance when the blood of Christ, once again, washes away our sins. We don't need to be rebaptized every time we sin after our initial baptism in Jesus name.