Your experience when you dropped "dress standards"

[Baron1710]

I remember reading Practical Holiness a Second Look and thinking, "Are you serious?" This is all there is behind these things? I was the crazy dude in sweat pants for PE and this is what you offer in the way of Scripture?

About the only change for me is I wear shorts pretty much all summer. For my wife it has been different and she hates going to churches that make it an issue, because virtually everyone pegs you as a sinner if you don't dress the right way. I guess I have a bit of my dad’s attitude, and I couldn’t care less what someone else thinks about my relationship with God.

I was most bothered by those that would admit that the dress code was not Biblical but either made lame references to building a fence, or were afraid of what others would say if they allowed it.

I guess it happened gradually when I had to start making decisions for myself and my attitude was if there isn't Bible for it why hinder people with ridiculous obligations that have nothing to do with salvation.

I feel relieved that I no longer walk a tight rope that requires my perfection to get into heaven.

[tamor]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Now, if you are convicted about something in your heart, and you go against that deliberately or rebelliously, that's another story. Or if you believe scripture does teach one thing, and you deliberately do another....

Rebellion is not always in play, no matter what some would like to believe.

Excellent post, Miss Bratt - as usual....

[Jack Shephard]

Another thing about my experience...My parents raised me to follow what the preacher preached, but out of a respect factor. But the key of what they taught me and also what the pastor said verbally is if you think that something being taught at this church is not biblical then do not follow it. You are welcome to leave if you want or stay. The pastor did not change the way he preached, but he also did not smack you on the head if you did not follow it. My parents allowed me to make my own choices. They taught me if standards is what it takes for you to live right then do them. But if they are not a need for you then don't worry about not doing them. Because I had the backing of my parents to search it for myself that made it an easier change.

[AbundantGrace]

The first standard that I gave up was long sleeves and I'm so grateful that I did, because it's so hot this time of year. Of course, when we retreated from the man made, so-called "Holiness Standards" which have no holiness in them at all, we were talked about, judged, called names and literally black-balled throughout the ranks of Pentecost, because we had suddenly believed the damnable lies of the enemy and we were rejecting truth. However, I've come to realize that we actually found truth, when we abandoned the lies of the UPC Legalistic Standards as a means to achieve holiness and began living lives that were totally surrendered and dependent upon Christ for our holiness. Today, we dress and live modestly, not as a means to BE HOLY, but because through Christ, we ARE HOLY.

And I know that I'll be deemed as an angry, bitter ex-UPCer and that's fine. I've been called everything you can imagine by many in those ranks, so I can handle it. I'm not bitter at all. I can't allow myself to be. However, there is something that I want to say since you started this self-righteous thread.

In UPC people's salvation state is judged by others mostly based upon their appearance. If a woman suddenly comes to church and her hair is trimmed, she has on any jewelry, a little bit of make-up, God forbid a pair of pants, she's backslidden and needs to get into the altar quickly so she can get pushed and shoved and spat upon, as she repents and gets saved AGAIN. Yet, that same woman, can look just right... Having all the standards perfected and be in the crowd of self-righteous Pharisees, judging someone else who's not LIVING RIGHT, yet she's deemed OK. I know you'll deny it, but it's the truth no matter what you say. Just the nature of the title of this thread alone, is of that same Pharisee spirit.

Jesus Christ came into this world to save us, because there was absolutely no way that we could even come close to saving ourselves. If we could have, then He came and suffered and died in vain. At the Cross, JESUS TRULY PAID IT IN FULL!!! There is nothing, outside of that work that can save our souls. Keeping "HOLINESS STANDARDS" is a joke! Those things have absolutely no bearing whatsoever on whether or not you're saved. Keeping them or not keeping them is NOT a reflection of your heart either. The Bible says that out of the mouth comes the abundance of your heart. If you want to examine your heart as a Christian, simply listen to what's coming out of your mouth. If you're judging everyone else and condemning them for their shortcomings or whatever, that's a pretty good indicator that something's not right in your own heart.

For it is by Grace that you have been saved and this not of yourselves. For it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast. It's ONLY by the unearned favor of God, through the finished work of Christ at the Cross that any of us can be saved. It is not based upon our own works or the lack thereof, but it's based on His work alone.

Salvation comes through the Cross alone. Our works are not FOR salvation, but BECAUSE OF salvation. If you preach the Cross plus anything else as a means of salvation, you're in error. It's the Cross plus nothing.

So again to answer the question, my long sleeves was the first to go, then I grew some facial hair. My wife is now a cosmetologist... Her hair is cut, she wears make-up, pants, jewelry and even colors her hair sometime. Yet, we've never been closer to the Lord in all of our lives. When we got rid of man-made religion, then the real relationship with Christ became the focal point.

God bless you all and please know that I do not mean to be unkind at all. I'm simply sharing my experience as a man who was in UPC for 36 years and has been out for 4. Thank God for the Blood of Jesus.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Another thing about my experience...My parents raised me to follow what the preacher preached, but out of a respect factor. But the key of what they taught me and also what the pastor said verbally is if you think that something being taught at this church is not biblical then do not follow it. You are welcome to leave if you want or stay. The pastor did not change the way he preached, but he also did not smack you on the head if you did not follow it. My parents allowed me to make my own choices. They taught me if standards is what it takes for you to live right then do them. But if they are not a need for you then don't worry about not doing them. Because I had the backing of my parents to search it for myself that made it an easier change.

My parents had the same take. Our pastor did not believe in Christmas trees (although they had all other kinds of Christmas decoratons) but we always had one. Our pastor was a great man with a wonderful sense of humor and would just joke about it when in our home around Christmas time.

Comic books were also supposed to be a no no but I was not deprived of Superman, Batman, Archie, Little Dot, Baby Huey, etc.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Hmmm. When I left the ultra con church we belonged to, I started wearing denim, took my hair down, and put on a knit t-shirt. (gasp) I put my wedding rings on, put on some chocolatey-smelling lip gloss, and watched a bunch of movies.

Seriously, matthew, I felt great--because I never believed in any of those "standards" anyway, so it was freedom for me to be myself.

I don't imagine that dropping standards you were never convicted of in the first place would even be a blip on the radar.

Now, if you are convicted about something in your heart, and you go against that deliberately or rebelliously, that's another story. Or if you believe scripture does teach one thing, and you deliberately do another....

Rebellion is not always in play, no matter what some would like to believe.

I agree this is a wonderful post Miss. Brattperson! I think it explains in an unoffensive way something very important.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by CC1

I agree this is a wonderful post Miss. Brattperson! I think it explains in an unoffensive way something very important.

I don't know what is wrong with me lately. I keep going around being inoffensive.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

No the first time I heard someone explain John 3:5 as not being about baptism it actually made sense to me. I feel like you have to bring a lot of baggage with you to get baptism out of that passage. So I kicked the W/S doctrine first.

I agree. I belive that if some is to be baptized then it is the outward sign of acknowledging their life has been given to Jesus. I would rather someone be baptized in Jesus name, but I am not going to eliminate someone from fellowship because they haven't. I do that in order to fulfill our God given abilities that we need the HG in our lives. Do I think it is essential to living right not really, but I certainly think it is the best guide for living right.

[Kae]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Hmmm. When I left the ultra con church we belonged to, I started wearing denim, took my hair down, and put on a knit t-shirt. (gasp) I put my wedding rings on, put on some chocolatey-smelling lip gloss, and watched a bunch of movies.

Seriously, matthew, I felt great--because I never believed in any of those "standards" anyway, so it was freedom for me to be myself.

I don't imagine that dropping standards you were never convicted of in the first place would even be a blip on the radar.

Now, if you are convicted about something in your heart, and you go against that deliberately or rebelliously, that's another story. Or if you believe scripture does teach one thing, and you deliberately do another....

Rebellion is not always in play, no matter what some would like to believe.

If you are raised from a child that it is wrong to wear pants is it a conviction or a learned behavior or any standard?

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by AbundantGrace

The first standard that I gave up was long sleeves and I'm so grateful that I did, because it's so hot this time of year. Of course, when we retreated from the man made, so-called "Holiness Standards" which have no holiness in them at all, we were talked about, judged, called names and literally black-balled throughout the ranks of Pentecost, because we had suddenly believed the damnable lies of the enemy and we were rejecting truth. However, I've come to realize that we actually found truth, when we abandoned the lies of the UPC Legalistic Standards as a means to achieve holiness and began living lives that were totally surrendered and dependent upon Christ for our holiness. Today, we dress and live modestly, not as a means to BE HOLY, but because through Christ, we ARE HOLY.

And I know that I'll be deemed as an angry, bitter ex-UPCer and that's fine. I've been called everything you can imagine by many in those ranks, so I can handle it. I'm not bitter at all. I can't allow myself to be. However, there is something that I want to say since you started this self-righteous thread.

In UPC people's salvation state is judged by others mostly based upon their appearance. If a woman suddenly comes to church and her hair is trimmed, she has on any jewelry, a little bit of make-up, God forbid a pair of pants, she's backslidden and needs to get into the altar quickly so she can get pushed and shoved and spat upon, as she repents and gets saved AGAIN. Yet, that same woman, can look just right... Having all the standards perfected and be in the crowd of self-righteous Pharisees, judging someone else who's not LIVING RIGHT, yet she's deemed OK. I know you'll deny it, but it's the truth no matter what you say. Just the nature of the title of this thread alone, is of that same Pharisee spirit.

Jesus Christ came into this world to save us, because there was absolutely no way that we could even come close to saving ourselves. If we could have, then He came and suffered and died in vain. At the Cross, JESUS TRULY PAID IT IN FULL!!! There is nothing, outside of that work that can save our souls. Keeping "HOLINESS STANDARDS" is a joke! Those things have absolutely no bearing whatsoever on whether or not you're saved. Keeping them or not keeping them is NOT a reflection of your heart either. The Bible says that out of the mouth comes the abundance of your heart. If you want to examine your heart as a Christian, simply listen to what's coming out of your mouth. If you're judging everyone else and condemning them for their shortcomings or whatever, that's a pretty good indicator that something's not right in your own heart.

For it is by Grace that you have been saved and this not of yourselves. For it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast. It's ONLY by the unearned favor of God, through the finished work of Christ at the Cross that any of us can be saved. It is not based upon our own works or the lack thereof, but it's based on His work alone.

Salvation comes through the Cross alone. Our works are not FOR salvation, but BECAUSE OF salvation. If you preach the Cross plus anything else as a means of salvation, you're in error. It's the Cross plus nothing.

So again to answer the question, my long sleeves was the first to go, then I grew some facial hair. My wife is now a cosmetologist... Her hair is cut, she wears make-up, pants, jewelry and even colors her hair sometime. Yet, we've never been closer to the Lord in all of our lives. When we got rid of man-made religion, then the real relationship with Christ became the focal point.

God bless you all and please know that I do not mean to be unkind at all. I'm simply sharing my experience as a man who was in UPC for 36 years and has been out for 4. Thank God for the Blood of Jesus.

Most of this is good. I am not too sure that Matt meant this thread as as selfrighteous one but could be. I agree with most all that you have said. I do however believe that alot still in the UPC do not believe the extra-biblical stuff, but follow it out of fear or acceptance. However there are people that cry at night cause there are people that follow most of the teaching but they are 'going to hell' cause they do not follow a dress code. That is nuts in my eys, but I would say that most are genuine in their faith. Though they are taught extra biblical teachings. I do have a hard time calling it a lie. I don't see how something can be a lie if the person telling believes it to be truth. They are better considered wrong, mislead, or whatever, but to say they are telling a lie that is a stretch for me.