Tulsa Report Day One

[George]

Originally Posted by The Dean

Just got this in from someone else at the Tulsa meeting...

AND the wise man stayed with UPC till he died. I. H. Terry.

[NW Pastor]

I agree. This "co-exist" mentality is only a temporary comprimise while the organization gathers support and becomes established. Also, it is easier to recruit new members if you still have a fifth colum in the good old UPC.

[NW Pastor]

I have never fully understood the "leave the UPC now because it is on the road to perdition" push, yet retain your connections to said hell bound organization. What is accomplished by forming a new, pure fellowship when ministers are still connected to the clearly contaminated UPC?

Is this not a little like holding on to the world with one hand and your convictions with other? Comprimise?

[StMark]

Originally Posted by PastorD

IMO, the only thing that is keeping them from being a FULL-BLOWN organization is that the key men that they want to lean heavy on are pastoring affiliated churches. I think it is more than obvious that the affiliated congregations are offering some resistance to leaving. Thus, the "Let's co-exist."

The 6 or 7 and the key men involved KNOW that they are DONE with UPC. They will never be seen as team players or supporters again. Showing up in Tulsa was like the burning of their boats....they cannot and will not return.

They have to promote the "co-exist" message to allow others time to work their churches out of affiliation.

including TLC??????????????????????????????


interesting insight

[StMark]

Originally Posted by NW Pastor

I have never fully understood the "leave the UPC now because it is on the road to perdition" push, yet retain your connections to said hell bound organization. What is accomplished by forming a new, pure fellowship when ministers are still connected to the clearly contaminated UPC?

Is this not a little like holding on to the world with one hand and your convictions with other? Comprimise?

now that's an interesting Question - Do you think you can get an answer?? seriously. I wonder what the answer to this is

[The Dean]

Originally Posted by NW Pastor

I have never fully understood the "leave the UPC now because it is on the road to perdition" push, yet retain your connections to said hell bound organization. What is accomplished by forming a new, pure fellowship when ministers are still connected to the clearly contaminated UPC?

Is this not a little like holding on to the world with one hand and your convictions with other? Comprimise?

For the record, I've never heard anybody associated with the Tulsa group saying things like "leave the UPC now because it is on the road to perdition" or "the UPC is hellbound" or "they are contaminated" type stuff.

I've not heard anything remotely like that at all.

[deacon blues]

Concerning a OK District event taking place at the same time......

The District Minister's and Wives Retreat is taking place at the same Embassy Suites that the Tulsa Summit people had advertised as one of the hotel options on their mailer. This event was scheduled at least a year in advance, long before the Summit. The Summit is happening just a few miles down the road and the Embassy Suites has a lot of Apostolics staying there that are attending the Summit while the OK District is trying to conduct its retreat.

When the Summit organizers realized that they had selected a date the coincided with the OK District, they sent a letter to the DS apologizing for the error. Needless to say doning such a thing is highly unethical according to the sacred manual. First, if one is going to conduct a meeting in an area, independent of any UPC churches in the area, the organizer(s) of the meeting are supposed to contact and secure the permission of all area pastors before doing so according to the ethics section of the manual. None of the four Tulsa pastors (the only ones inside the city limits) were contacted, let alone granted their permission for such a meeting.

Second, once the Summit organizers learned of the conflict, the right thing to do would have been to reschedule. There was no attempt to do so. Just an apology for their honest mistake. I will grant them it was an honest mistake, but it was unethical nonetheless.

The retreat has a smaller crowd this year, probably due to the pull of the other meeting with some of the OK brethren.

[StMark]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Concerning a OK District event taking place at the same time......

The District Minister's and Wives Retreat is taking place at the same Embassy Suites that the Tulsa Summit people had advertised as one of the hotel options on their mailer. This event was scheduled at least a year in advance, long before the Summit. The Summit is happening just a few miles down the road and the Embassy Suites has a lot of Apostolics staying there that are attending the Summit while the OK District is trying to conduct its retreat.

When the Summit organizers realized that they had selected a date the coincided with the OK District, they sent a letter to the DS apologizing for the error. Needless to say doning such a thing is highly unethical according to the sacred manual. First, if one is going to conduct a meeting in an area, independent of any UPC churches in the area, the organizer(s) of the meeting are supposed to contact and secure the permission of all area pastors before doing so according to the ethics section of the manual. None of the four Tulsa pastors (the only ones inside the city limits) were contacted, let alone granted their permission for such a meeting.

Second, once the Summit organizers learned of the conflict, the right thing to do would have been to reschedule. There was no attempt to do so. Just an apology for their honest mistake. I will grant them it was an honest mistake, but it was unethical nonetheless.

The retreat has a smaller crowd this year, probably due to the pull of the other meeting with some of the OK brethren.

*** Attention Mrs. Bratfield ***


Here is the conference I was referring to.

[NW Pastor]

Originally Posted by The Dean

For the record, I've never heard anybody associated with the Tulsa group saying things like "leave the UPC now because it is on the road to perdition" or "the UPC is hellbound" or "they are contaminated" type stuff.

I've not heard anything remotely like that at all.

Actions speak louder than words. Double speak is alive and well in 2008.Clearly, they are not forming the WPF because they think the UPC is on the right track. Why form a new organization unless the old one is deemed to be unreformable? Why not work from the inside to promote change, rather than abandon that effort for a new endevor?

I think their actions speak for themselves. We have already felt the sting of followers of the dearly departed who are not able to say one thing and do another. Their words reveal verbally what the ministers repress.

[PastorD]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Concerning a OK District event taking place at the same time......

The District Minister's and Wives Retreat is taking place at the same Embassy Suites that the Tulsa Summit people had advertised as one of the hotel options on their mailer. This event was scheduled at least a year in advance, long before the Summit. The Summit is happening just a few miles down the road and the Embassy Suites has a lot of Apostolics staying there that are attending the Summit while the OK District is trying to conduct its retreat.

When the Summit organizers realized that they had selected a date the coincided with the OK District, they sent a letter to the DS apologizing for the error. Needless to say doning such a thing is highly unethical according to the sacred manual. First, if one is going to conduct a meeting in an area, independent of any UPC churches in the area, the organizer(s) of the meeting are supposed to contact and secure the permission of all area pastors before doing so according to the ethics section of the manual. None of the four Tulsa pastors (the only ones inside the city limits) were contacted, let alone granted their permission for such a meeting.

Second, once the Summit organizers learned of the conflict, the right thing to do would have been to reschedule. There was no attempt to do so. Just an apology for their honest mistake. I will grant them it was an honest mistake, but it was unethical nonetheless.

The retreat has a smaller crowd this year, probably due to the pull of the other meeting with some of the OK brethren.

Same 'honest' mistake with initial Summit in Houston. They said they didn't know they were supposed to contact DS or area men and that it was an oversight. Hmmm......