A letter from Bro. Haney

[gulfcoastbrother]

Bro H, a true class act. A TRUE man of God!!!!!! He is very progressive!

[tv1a]

Your point is well taken. However, Acts 2:38 is not the reason why the upci is a drip instead of a waterfall. Unscriptural isolationism is still an epidemic in the upci. The reason we are not the size of the Crystal Cathedral is very few upci ministers have the vision it takes to make it a reality. The upci ministers who do are castigated and talked about like they agents of evil. That kind of kindom destruction keeps many ministers from fulfilling the God given vision.

The main differnce I see between the aog and upci is the aog has it wrong at the beginning, but right after that. The upci has it right and the beginning, but it most cases it goes downhil from there. What needs to happen is both sides get it right from beginning to end. Until more of the upci ministers line up with priorties of scripture more than emphasizing the manual, they will continue to underacheive.

Originally Posted by Joseph Miller

Who's radar counts, God's or the World's?

I am not saying the the church must be small, but just because we are not the size of the crystal cathedrial don't mean they are more successful, holy, saved or Godly than we are. It boils down to who is preaching truth and who isn't.

[Apprehended]

Originally Posted by Joseph Miller

Not everyone and not even all of the AOG people because I hear that some are baptized in Jesus name.

My problem is mainly with the people who are compromising the doctrine and not willing to stand up for the Word of God. It is still Acts 2:38 and holiness. If someone has not obeyed the gospel they are not saved.

I'm inclided to grant a lot of lattitude since my understanding is not yet perfected...a condition that I do not expect to achieve until I reach gloryland.

But, for the sake of discussion of your "problem," as you put it, since it is still Acts 2:38 and holiness, it seems that you are falling short of all requirements.

Shouldn't the requirements be to obey:

1. Implied command to believe that Jesus is the One God, "...except that ye believe that I am HE (the father manifested in flesh) ye shall die in your sins, taken from Jn 8?

2. The biblical command to sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me, taken from Mark 10.

3. The biblical command of water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ...taken from the ONE verse that everyone here majors in...yea, hath a Phd. in the study of.

4. The biblical command to practice pure religion as the Apostle James states, that is to say, among other things you have to (a) visit the orphans in their afflictions, (b) visit the widows in their afflictions, (c) keep yourself unspotted from worldliness, taken from James 1st Chapter.

5. I could list a host of other commandments too, but here are a few for starters...

Can any of the commandments be ignored and still be saved?

Which of the above commandments can be ignored and still be filled with the Holy Ghost since the Holy Ghost, according to Peter in Acts, is given ONLY to those who OBEY Him, taken from Acts 5...

[Lafon]

Originally Posted by tv1a

Neckstadt is correct. If it weren't for the explosive outgrowth in the mission field, a la' Ethiopia, El Salvador, Mexico and Phillipines the upci growth wouldn't make it on the radar.

This begs the question - Why? Why is it that the UPCI, as well as all of the other OAP groups, have experienced greater growth in the mission fields of Ethopia, El Salvador, Mexico, the Phillipines, or any of the other nations of the Southern hemisphere than has been realized in the USA? Has anyone ever paused to consider the words of Zechariah 6:8, which IMHO, explicitly proclaims that this INCREASE would be greater in such regions of the world than in the "north country" (i.e., the Northern hemisphere).

Has anyone ever paused to ponder the underlying reason why this is so? Could it be attributed to the fact that the inhabitants of the "north country" have increased in a reliance upon themselves rather than dependence upon God (much like many influential people in times past), and in so doing have "quieted" the movement of the Spirit in this region. I, for one, am inclined to think so! One must literally "beg" a sinner to come to the altar of repentance in America, whereas in the aforementioned nations those who are priviliged to hear this glorious gospel message for the very first time, eagerly seek to do so without having to be prompted.

Just some "food for thought" about this matter. I would enjoy reading the comments of others on this topic.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by KarenJo

As a graduate of Christian Life College and a former member of Christian Life Center (About 12 years) I had the privilege of having Rev. Kenneth Haney as my Pastor. I always knew that one day; he would lead the UPC because of his ability to lead our church. After he was elected I made sure that I was there when he preached at General Conference for the first time as the General Superintendent. I told the person that I was sitting with that it was like being home. Bro. Haney was “preaching/pastoring” as he always did on Sunday’s at CLC but now he was “preaching/pastoring” an organization. It was a great moment. He didn’t change who he was just because he was now the GS of the UPCI. He preached like he always had. I know that before he accepted this position, he prayed for God’s will just as he prayed before any other major step in his life. Is he perfect? No, but is anyone? It’s amazing that we can make judgments about people when we don’t have all the information to make that judgment. There is one thing that I do know is that he didn’t need this position to elevate him in the organization and he didn’t need this to make a name for himself. There is something that can be said for a man of God who will stand up for what he thinks is right. I have always been thankful that church was about Jesus and not about an individual. For many years, men in the UPCI tried to get him to run for G.S. but out of respect for his dad, (Clyde Haney), he never would run against Bro. Urshan or Bro. Kilgore. He has always had a great respect for the men who went before him in leading this organization. Progress is made in our culture on a daily basis so we should be able to use all the tools available to us in helping to promote the gospel. The message doesn’t change, just the tools we use to help promote it. It’s all in the attitude, what is the real reason why people do what they do. Some minister because they are called and some minister for other reasons. We need to go back to what ministry is all about, “meeting people at the point of their need”....just my 2 cents...

Good words, Karen Jo, about a man of God whom you respect very highly.
We see and hear so much negative stuff about people. It's refreshing to hear good stuff about someone.

[tv1a]

I don't remember if his testimony was on his website on on a previous forum. Here is a link to his site. It appears to have changed since the last time I visited a few years back... http://www.prodigalvoice.org

Hope this helps...

Originally Posted by ContenderForTheFaith

Bro. Phil, I would love to be able to read your testimony in its entirety if it is available to be read. God bless you Bro.

[Sept5SavedTeen]

Typical UPC-way of doing things... What myself and my sister couldn't stomach anymore with the UPC was the hype- COSTANT HYPE! We got 50 filled with the HG last revival! How many are there next Sunday?! I saw people baptized and then leave, never to return. I just heard a message by a conservative indep brother on this sort of thing, so I know that myself and my sister and a friend of ours are not the only ones dissatisfied. Bro. Haney saying only 27 are leaving and that other splits from the UPC have come to "naught" shows true UPC arrogance. Now I'm not about to get a plane ticket to Tulsa either, and I think the WPF is foolish as is any denomination because it's just not biblical. BUT I can respect the decision of the men who are forming the WPF to break with a denomination that has continually lowered the standard, watered down the message and hyped things up so much that you can't pay attention to half of what they say anymore. Also, from my experience in the UPC, the ministers did market and package the message in such a way that church, conventions and youth rallies were entertaining, but it had no SUBSTANCE. Bro. Haney and the rest can say what they want, but GOD's will is being accomplished with there being a break, and I hope eventually those that break with the UPC will return to the old paths, go to an autonomous and independent church government and resemble the NT church. Also, as for fellowship- go ahead and fellowship, PLEASE we NEED fellowship, but you don't need some WPF or UPC or whatever other organization for good fellowship.

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex

[tv1a]

You are on the right track. The OAP groups in the northern hemisphere have put their emphasis on the wrong thing. An understanding of "oneness" is not as important to God as it to us. Subjective standards and television are not as important to God as they are to us. We have retained more people in our church teaching Biblical principles like prayer, fasting, tithing, giving, worship, modesty, putting God first. Those are what are important to God. Revival is happening in third world countries because their priorities are straght.

Originally Posted by Lafon

This begs the question - Why? Why is it that the UPCI, as well as all of the other OAP groups, have experienced greater growth in the mission fields of Ethopia, El Salvador, Mexico, the Phillipines, or any of the other nations of the Southern hemisphere than has been realized in the USA? Has anyone ever paused to consider the words of Zechariah 6:8, which IMHO, explicitly proclaims that this INCREASE would be greater in such regions of the world than in the "north country" (i.e., the Northern hemisphere).

Has anyone ever paused to ponder the underlying reason why this is so? Could it be attributed to the fact that the inhabitants of the "north country" have increased in a reliance upon themselves rather than dependence upon God (much like many influential people in times past), and in so doing have "quieted" the movement of the Spirit in this region. I, for one, am inclined to think so! One must literally "beg" a sinner to come to the altar of repentance in America, whereas in the aforementioned nations those who are priviliged to hear this glorious gospel message for the very first time, eagerly seek to do so without having to be prompted.

Just some "food for thought" about this matter. I would enjoy reading the comments of others on this topic.

[tv1a]

Don't want to break your heart, but the wpf only wants to go back to the 1940's. Unless I'm mistaken the old paths have been around much longer than that.

Originally Posted by Sept5SavedTeen

Typical UPC-way of doing things... What myself and my sister couldn't stomach anymore with the UPC was the hype- COSTANT HYPE! We got 50 filled with the HG last revival! How many are there next Sunday?! I saw people baptized and then leave, never to return. I just heard a message by a conservative indep brother on this sort of thing, so I know that myself and my sister and a friend of ours are not the only ones dissatisfied. Bro. Haney saying only 27 are leaving and that other splits from the UPC have come to "naught" shows true UPC arrogance. Now I'm not about to get a plane ticket to Tulsa either, and I think the WPF is foolish as is any denomination because it's just not biblical. BUT I can respect the decision of the men who are forming the WPF to break with a denomination that has continually lowered the standard, watered down the message and hyped things up so much that you can't pay attention to half of what they say anymore. Also, from my experience in the UPC, the ministers did market and package the message in such a way that church, conventions and youth rallies were entertaining, but it had no SUBSTANCE. Bro. Haney and the rest can say what they want, but GOD's will is being accomplished with there being a break, and I hope eventually those that break with the UPC will return to the old paths, go to an autonomous and independent church government and resemble the NT church. Also, as for fellowship- go ahead and fellowship, PLEASE we NEED fellowship, but you don't need some WPF or UPC or whatever other organization for good fellowship.

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex

[Sept5SavedTeen]

As for growth, the Bible tells us there'll be a great falling away, and we see fewer people willing to commit their lives to GOD, some of it has to do with preachers that won't preach committment and such things, but waste time with jokes, fundraisers, or what have you. ALSO, even with the case that you have a good preacher, with a healthy church, many will not HEAR and HEED the message, the Bible told us this would also happen in the last days. You go back some time, and a preacher would preach on hell and souls were trembling and converted, now, it doesn't have the same effect, it's like people are so desensitized. Now growth is still in GOD's plan for his Church, but I DO NOT believe in the mega-church model, and I don't believe growth should be our top concern. Worship of GOD, Holiness (which becometh HIS house forever), and then keeping what we have and winning souls. HE comes first- what HE wants comes first. Now, HE'll lead us to go out and make disciples, but really, how many people are being discipled in these mega-churches?
Keep preaching and reaching out to people, but if the message is rejected, know why, the days are short and men are more wicked.

*This post and the previous one are written with credit given to the brethren I've been fellowshipping over the New Year holiday break, these ideas are mine, but I in no way claim to have recieved this without the solid preaching and teaching of annointed men of GOD over the last week and a half.

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex