For those who want to know...RULES at my church!

[Thad]

Originally Posted by Trouvere

Brother Thad if it truly is a victim.The thing I am sick of is adults who can get in their car bellyaching about the UPC.Gas may not be cheap but it is accessable.That is what I am sick of reading.When someone is young and taken advantage of by adults its one thing but to be a grown person and allow someone to enslave you into a cultish mindset it wrong.People can
be charged and go to prison for coming into your house and abusing your kids or doing other things to you and yours.That is what I am addressing.Its nothing about beating up victims.There is a true victim and then there is the victim mindset.Some people just like to remain in that field and bat that ball around for years.It gets old.

Do you know this to be the case in the situations being discussed here?
I don't believe these people are wallowing in self pity. It takes time to heal from such spiritually impacting things. I think it would be prudent to show compassion where it is merited.
when saints internalize that they cannot question spiritual leadership at the risk of damning their soul, then obviously abuses are bound to happen . I don't think this level of extremity is wide spread but i believe we should acknowledge that it can at least happen AND i know for a fact that it has.

[Raven]

Originally Posted by Timmy

Here's a thought experiment for us to consider. (I've been criticized before for bringing up hypotheticals. Why? Not sure, but I have a theory. But never mind that, now. If you don't like hypotheticals, stop reading right here.)

What would happen if every denomination, organization/fellowship of ministers, and church in the world, whether they are Oneness or not, Pentecostal or not, fundamentalist or not, were suddenly to shut their doors, close up shop, disband. Every minister, preacher, evangelist, missionary, denomination/fellowship official tears up their credentials. Everyone is a layman now, each reading the Bible and studying for themselves (OK, small groups in homes are allowed!), searching God in their own way.

Would God's work stop?

Or would it continue, perhaps stronger than ever? Everyone lives the life that God leads them into, doing the work God gives them, loving their neighbor as themselves, loving each other, loving God.

Do we really need to meet once a week, or twice, or the more the better? To hear a "sermon", which more times than not is a rehashing of things we've heard over and over again? (Not that repetition is always bad, but sometimes it gets ridiculous!) Do some of us need all the rules laid out for us? Do some of us need to be constantly reminded how sinful we are, and if we don't toe the line, do we need to be berated and humiliated?

Isn't God powerful enough to lead individuals into truth, when they seek it?

(NOTE: I am not claiming that nothing good ever happens in churches or denominations. That's not the purpose of this little thought experiment. Not really advocating this massive shutdown, either. But I do wonder, sometimes, if the good outweighs the bad, all things considered.)

Timmy

Some good thoughts and ........... this could very well happen in the days to come. In my opinion that would not be such a bad thing!
Raven

Originally Posted by Trouvere

Yeah imagine that God choose that by the foolishness of preaching we would be saved.How callous of God to decide that we need to hear a sermon or be reminded of our sinful conditon.What a shame that we have follow the bible
huh???

There is nothing wrong with preaching...no one said there was...but all to often the preaching gets off track...and is it really about our relationship with God...

I have a wonderful relationship with God, I can at anytime talk with Him, read His book, one day I will probably find a church....but I am not in a hurry, because I don't want to repeat my mistake!

[Thad]

Originally Posted by Sister Truth Seeker

If you have read all the posts here you will see that for us that were abused and wounded our first real experience with church was in an abusive church, so we did not have the knowledge or skills to do as you suggest. Brainwashing is a very subtle thing, you don't know its happening and you don't know that seeds are planted...when you come into the church as I did, with an open heart and completely believing the pastor was the highest authority and there was no questioning him....I had no way of knowing this was not how it should be...I was totally absorbed into my church...it WAS my life, I had nothing else....everything thing we did was about the church...EVERYTHING...holidays, vacations, weekends, our lives were the church...we thought that was how you served God...I am sorry but your really not seeing it....

you have summed this thing up perfectly ! !

Originally Posted by Thad

you have summed this thing up perfectly ! !

Thank you....thank you for your support...it show a maturity on your part and the ability to see that what some may feel is perfect is not...if people are open to the fact that there may be some problems in some churches perhaps it will be much better for the organization in the long run! Cancer needs to be gotten rid of because we can not live healthy lives with it in our bodies!

[Thad]

Originally Posted by Sister Truth Seeker

Thank you....thank you for your support...it show a maturity on your part and the ability to see that what some may feel is perfect is not...if people are open to the fact that there may be some problems in some churches perhaps it will be much better for the organization in the long run! Cancer needs to be gotten rid of because we can not live healthy lives with it in our bodies!

I've seen people who had cancer and lived in complete denial until it was too late. isn't it safer to deal with things honestly?
The Pentecostal church in general often lives in a state of denial when it comes to any negative perceptions. why we can't discuss things honestly and just deal with it is beyond mebut usually we can't. I can't put my finger on the reason but their tends to be an unspoken rule that if you do, you are totally disloyal. i can't see where this helps us in progressing

Originally Posted by Thad

I've seen people who had cancer and lived in complete denial until it was too late. isn't it safer to deal with things honestly?
The Pentecostal church in general often lives in a state of denial when it comes to any negative perceptions. why we can't discuss things honestly and just deal with it is beyond mebut usually we can't. I can't put my finger on the reason but their tends to be an unspoken rule that if you do, you are totally disloyal. i can't see where this helps us in progressing

It is fear...IMHO....which if you are sure you have all the complete truth why would you have fear???? That is very curious I think...truth will always stand up against lies...it may take time, but always lies are revealed!

Originally Posted by He's My Friend

Some may think this is silly, if so, that's ok, we are entitled to our own opinions.


I started thinking about this topic, and how some folks have shared their experiences.

After reading the posts, we find that there are some very extreme instances out there.

If we want, we can share our experiences, or we can offer a "friendly ear"
to the ones that wish to tell their story.


I look at it this way..........

If I invite friends over to my house, (lady friends, or sister ladies) we are going to eventually touch on a topic that is troubling one friend.

Before it is over, maybe another friend will speak up, and share a similar story.

Her input may be something she has personally experienced, or maybe something a family member has experienced, or another friend.

There are those friends that will listen, and those that will listen and offer advice.

Whatever the outcome is at the friendly get together (at my home), we are friends that joined together in my living room, we were there for each other.

My friends came to my house because they were invited to come in.

So......that is like being here, we ae here because we have been invited.

Some share their stories and feelings.

I usually won't say much "here", but if you were in my home what a time we would have.

I don't mind dear people sharing what they have been through, or what they are going through.

I am a happy, healthy church sister, that does attend a good church now.

Things did happen in the past, many things that I did not tell about.

Today I plan to keep moving on, helping others, and working for the Lord.


Remember like a good friend is always there for you, God is the best.

He's My Friend !

Great Post sis....

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by Trouvere

Yeah imagine that God choose that by the foolishness of preaching we would be saved.How callous of God to decide that we need to hear a sermon or be reminded of our sinful conditon.What a shame that we have follow the bible
huh???

It's sad that some Op's see this scripture and interpret it as "foolish preaching"

In a church just down the road from you Trouvere, I saw the pastor call a sister to come stand befor ethe pulpit and force her to take her hair down to reveal what she had in her hair.

This sister was so embarrased.

The preacher had heard that sister was putting something up inside her hair to fix it up.

(I think you sister's called this a rat or something like that)

She was chastised and rebuked before the entire congregation.

I learned later when this pastor got home he was informed by his wife and daughters that they too used these accesories in fixing their hair.

Nothing more was ever said to the congregation about this subject.

No public apology made to this sister.

This same pastor made a brand new convert i had won shave his short beard.

This was an afican american who was in the navy with me.

Some african americans have a serious problem with shaving as ingrown wiskers get infected.

This brother explained this and was told he had to shave anyway. To trust God and it would be OK.

He being young and dumb and willing to please the man of God, shaved.

He shaved against the orders of his Navy Dr. His face broke out in mess of infected ingrown hairs.

I don't understand why he did not continue long with us.

Spiriual authoritarian abuse occurs among us. It is sad but true.

Pretty sure you know the church Trouvere. Pastor BWA passed away 5 years ago but Jr is still there I believe.

Originally Posted by freeatlast

It's sad that some Op's see this scripture and interpret it as "foolish preaching"

In a church just down the road from you Trouvere, I saw the pastor call a sister to come stand befor ethe pulpit and force her to take her hair down to reveal what she had in her hair.

This sister was so embarrased.

The preacher had heard that sister was putting something up inside her hair to fix it up.

(I think you sister's called this a rat or something like that)

She was chastised and rebuked before the entire congregation.

I learned later when this pastor got home he was informed by his wife and daughters that they too used these accesories in fixing their hair.

Nothing more was ever said to the congregation about this subject.

No public apology made to this sister.

This same pastor made a brand new convert i had won shave his short beard.

This was an afican american who was in the navy with me.

Some african americans have a serious problem with shaving as ingrown wiskers get infected.

This brother explained this and was told he had to shave anyway. To trust God and it would be OK.

He being young and dumb and willing to please the man of God, shaved.

He shaved against the orders of his Navy Dr. His face broke out in mess of infected ingrown hairs.

I don't understand why he did not continue long with us.

Spiriual authoritarian abuse occurs among us. It is sad but true.

Pretty sure you know the church Trouvere. Pastor BWA passed away 5 years ago but Jr is still there I believe.

Was he told that he must not really trust God or his face would not break out? As to the sister that he called out...for a pastor to not be able to humble himself before his congregaton has an ego problem....ego can get a person into a lot of trouble! My old pastors wife wrote a whole book on it, but then could not see it in her own family...none are so blind than those that choose to not see!