IF Res 4 Does NOT Pass??

[ChicagoPastor]

Originally Posted by UltraCon

I'm not trying to force anything on anybody. Do whatever you want. I respect a liberal as a person just as I would respect a muslim. I DO have a problem with lying UPC preachers. I don't want them to conform to what I believe, I want them to be a man and do what they said they would do. If you don't fall in that catagory then by all means live how you want.

I was going to respond to the part where you put liberal minded people in the same boat as muslims but I don't think there's any use.

Originally Posted by UltraCon

While I don't think TV is good for anybody I can't say that you'll be lost for watching it. If you came to our church it would be a different answer because we preach against. So yes if you were here and you had it i'd say that you were lost. I will say that I believe all UPC ministers that have and watch TV's are liars and I believe they'll have to answer for that one day. TV is the big topic but I feel the same way about all of the Articles of Faith that I signed saying I would believe in. There's a list on here somewhere, I think a UPC minister should live up to every one or simply leave the org. I hope this answers your question.

Do you ever drive over the speed limit? Or drive without wearing your seatbelt?

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

The resolution was never touted as anything for what ails the org. What ails the org is division and control. We are stuck in a paradigm of thinking and every other group in history that started off with a bang got bogged down through tradition, creeds and control till they lost the fire they originally had.

Pentecost in the early 1900's was not born out of doctrine. It was born out of a hunger for a deeper experience with God and to be empowered to reach the lost. Once we got that then the groups decided to nail down the lid on doctrine but what happens often as a result is they stifled the very spirit that got us here.

Excellent Point!

Originally Posted by UltraCon

What a pastor preaches in their church is between them and God (not me).

This is going to seem really simple, brother, but why can't an organization be run like this???

Why can't a group like the UPCI be a loosely affiliated group of churches where the similarities are Jesus name baptism and oneness??? Why do we have to go out into all this other nonsense that just messes everything up???

What is the point of all this other stuff???

I mean why not let God be the judge and just deal with what other people are saying??? Why not do what James and the Jerusalem church did in the Bible????

[triumphant1]

Originally Posted by redeemedcynic84

This is going to seem really simple, brother, but why can't an organization be run like this???

Why can't a group like the UPCI be a loosely affiliated group of churches where the similarities are Jesus name baptism and oneness??? Why do we have to go out into all this other nonsense that just messes everything up???

What is the point of all this other stuff???

I mean why not let God be the judge and just deal with what other people are saying??? Why not do what James and the Jerusalem church did in the Bible????

I think the reluctance is that some of those things...like hair, dresses, and tv have been "identifying markers" in the movement and are revered as "sacred tradition". The standards are marks of separation from everything else Christian and even Pentecost and to lose those marks of distinction would be to lose identity..IMO.

Originally Posted by triumphant1

I think the reluctance is that some of those things...like hair, dresses, and tv have been "identifying markers" in the movement and are revered as "sacred tradition". The standards are marks of separation from everything else Christian and even Pentecost and to lose those marks of distinction would be to lose identity..IMO.

but maybe the identity we formed for ourselves wasn't of God...

I mean... I don't see ANYWHERE in the Bible where anything similar to what we did/do is shown... The Jews did to a point, but that was all ended at the Council of Jerusalem...

I don't get why we feel/felt the need to create a faux-Law to follow...

[StillStanding]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

The resolution was never touted as anything for what ails the org. What ails the org is division and control. We are stuck in a paradigm of thinking and every other group in history that started off with a bang got bogged down through tradition, creeds and control till they lost the fire they originally had.

Pentecost in the early 1900's was not born out of doctrine. It was born out of a hunger for a deeper experience with God and to be empowered to reach the lost. Once we got that then the groups decided to nail down the lid on doctrine but what happens often as a result is they stifled the very spirit that got us here.

This should be nominated as post of the year!

[Sandra]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

Matt, with all due respect, as someone who is not a part of the org, why do you care?

wow.... smarty pants. Be nice to matt!