Who was Harry Morse ?

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

I undersatnd what you’re saying.

Yet, what do you think about the money “issue” in general for ALL believers.

Does money guide all of us? Do we understand how much we lean on that green paper or that card in our wallet or purse?

Let’s forget about preachers and ministry and ask ourselves if ANY believer should be wealthy? Ive heard saints that did not preach say, “I’m moving to this state because I was offered a better job making MORE money”. Ive heard testimonies in the church, how God bless this man/women with a new car! Really! The $25k, or $35k you spent on that vehicle could not that have gone to a homeless shelter, or maybe a believer in the church needed repairs on his vehicle, you couldve paid for it. Talk aout serving the god of their flesh. Believers work 40+ hours a week sometimes overtime to make that almighty dollar, yet some may pray 15 minutes a day. How can that work?

Those men and women of the bible gave everything they had for this work! Lets talk about all of us, should any or us be wealthy or should we seek first the kingdom and wait for God to give us everything else?

Matthew 6:25-34 KJVS
[25] Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
[26] Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
[27] Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
[28] And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
[29] And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
[30] Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
[31] Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
[32] (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
[33] But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
[34] Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

In general . . .

I believe that money is amoral. I don’t believe that there is anything wrong with any saint being wealthy. The problem comes when saints (whether or not they are preachers) doing immoral things to acquire wealth. Wealth can be a blessing from God, or it can be the fruits of many forms of immoral activities. At some level there has to be excess to bless the poor, hungry, cold etc. as Jesus taught. He wasn’t talking about making it appear out of thin air.

To address your point, money can certainly be too important to the saints. It can become a god in itself. It can become so important that preacher/pastor saints teach giving of a sort that the Bible doesn’t endorse. That is immoral. But it shouldn’t matter if you are a preacher or a layperson. We ALL need to get it right. But, according to scripture, we should be very careful, because when money is involved, there is a lot of temptation. If we love money, we are going to have to deal with the roots of all evil.

However, the fact remains that in general, the laypeople are the victims of the immoral misinformation that the preachers fabricate from their own selfishness. That’s the big picture. It takes a man of discipline and principle to rightly divide the word of God, when it is expected that he will follow the status quo of the self serving false doctrine of tithing.

Most preachers fail the test.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by coksiw

1 Timothy 6:6-11 (NKJV) 6 Now godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. 8 And having food and clothing, with these we shall be content. 9 But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition. 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
11 But you, O man of God, flee these things and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, gentleness.


1 Timothy 6:17-19 (NKJV) 17 Command those who are rich in this present age not to be haughty, nor to trust in uncertain riches but in the living God, who gives us richly all things to enjoy. 18 Let them do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to give, willing to share, 19 storing up for themselves a good foundation for the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.


That's what I believe. The Bible is clear as water regarding riches.

When you purse wealth accumulation because of biblical wisdom (see proverbs), you don't overdo it, and you don't find pleasure in luxuries, because you are not pursing it as a way to obtain vainglory, and satisfy your lusts, but you are just doing your part of being diligent at work, and administering what God is giving you as result, and saving it for the "winter" times.

If God prospers you above measure in his grace, is for you to be even more generous and be rich in good works as the Epistles teach.

Good job. And I personally know saints who do a good job of giving as you describe here. It is refreshing. And it is one of the often overlooked gifts of the Spirit.

[diakonos]

This has been an interesting thread. I request that we turn it back over to Scott Pita and his research.

Cordially,

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by diakonos

This has been an interesting thread. I request that we turn it back over to Scott Pita and his research.

Cordially,

Sorry, it is just the indignation one feels when you hear preachers persuading people so badly, with even bible verses (targeted to other recipients), to give, when in reality we know where the discourse is going to: give… to me. Something unheard of in the NT.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by diakonos

This has been an interesting thread. I request that we turn it back over to Scott Pita and his research.

Cordially,

We are just using it until Scott gets around to posting again in another month or two. Then he can have it back. This is more life than he’s had on this thread in years. I find it interesting that his post that started this particular response had a statement at the beginning that said “God wants only volunteer giving”. If preachers really believe that, why do they try to coerce giving?

[diakonos]

Good grief!

[Scott Pitta]

8/15/1916 (Salvation Messenger, Sabetha, Kansas, p. 3)
Baptized Into The Body. (Written by G. T. Haywood, Indianapolis, Ind.)
Chorus:
Have you been baptized into the body ?
Baptized with the Holy Ghost;
There is but one way to enter in it, Just as they did on Pentecost

Are you in the church triumphant?
Are you in the Savior's Bride?
Come and be baptized into the Body,
And forevermore abide.

There is but one church,
Bride or Body And into it we're all baptized;
By the one, true, promised Holy Spirit
Tho' by the world we're till despised.

Ev'ry creed has claim'd to be the Body But the "plumb-line" proved untrue;
All their dreams, for God has so determined,
To bring His Son's true Bride to view.

Many thought that they were in the -Body,
'Till the Holy Ghost had come;
When the Word of God was opened to them,
They entered in, and yet there's room.

Those who died before the Holy Spirit
Came upon us from on high
May, by faith with Saints of old departed,
Arise to meet Him in the sky.
When the Bridegroom comes,
will you be ready; And your vessel all filled and bright?
You will be among the foolish virgins If you do not walk in the light.
Copyright 1914 by G. T. Haywood.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Scott Pitta

8/15/1916 (Salvation Messenger, Sabetha, Kansas, p. 3)
Baptized Into The Body. (Written by G. T. Haywood, Indianapolis, Ind.)
Chorus:
Have you been baptized into the body ?
Baptized with the Holy Ghost;
There is but one way to enter in it, Just as they did on Pentecost

Are you in the church triumphant?
Are you in the Savior's Bride?
Come and be baptized into the Body,
And forevermore abide.

There is but one church,
Bride or Body And into it we're all baptized;
By the one, true, promised Holy Spirit
Tho' by the world we're till despised.

Ev'ry creed has claim'd to be the Body But the "plumb-line" proved untrue;
All their dreams, for God has so determined,
To bring His Son's true Bride to view.

Many thought that they were in the -Body,
'Till the Holy Ghost had come;
When the Word of God was opened to them,
They entered in, and yet there's room.

Those who died before the Holy Spirit
Came upon us from on high
May, by faith with Saints of old departed,
Arise to meet Him in the sky.
When the Bridegroom comes,
will you be ready; And your vessel all filled and bright?
You will be among the foolish virgins If you do not walk in the light.
Copyright 1914 by G. T. Haywood.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

[Scott Pitta]

An address on a hymnal on a book for sale on Ebay gave me the clue I needed to intersect Mattie Crawford, the PAW, California and where she was probably baptized in Jesus name.

It is late and there is more data to capture.

The name of the church in Indianapolis was called the Oak Hill Tabernacle. Looks like it began in 1914. L. V. Roberts pastored there from 1914 until at least 1919.

It was a good day for discovering the Oneness roots of Mattie Crawford.