Do you have a pastor?

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Thats strange. All the modern Pastors Im hearing say NONE OF US can be perfect! They will preach a message of "holiness" and finish it up saying "Im not talking about being perfect".

So pitiful. Fighting against the very PURPOSE ministry is for. If one believes them they should NOT expect to be saved.

Im sure there are some out there preaching truth but you should not just believe everyone.

Mike, I’m going to copy what bird dog said, and that is perfecting is simply meaning mature.

You and I both know that when your saved by the words of Jesus and the Apostles, there is a walk of faith that you will be enduring. Look how Paul spoken of this;

2 Timothy 4:7 KJVS
[7] I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:


Did you ever look at this verse and wonder what is a “good” fight?
Is it a Mike Tyson 1st round knockout? No, its not!

For the sake of time I cannot provide the scriptures that will show in plain speech the maturing of the Apostle Paul. However, look at how the Apostle was used in Perfecting some of the church’s in his time.

Galatians 3:1-4 KJVS
[1] O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
[2] This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[3] Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
[4] Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

Perfecting (maturing) the church.

1 Corinthians 14:26-28 KJVS
[26] How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
[27] If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
[28] But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

Again, Perfecting (maturing) the church.

Is this scriptures saying there lost and going to split hell wide open? I don't believe so, I believe this is what the ministry is for. The perfecting of the body of Christ.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Thats what I thought. Just like any denomination. THEIR DOCTRINE is all thats essential. Its the "Apostolic Light" doctrine.

You MUST believe in those 2 things to be saved. Then thats it! Any other doctrine is not "salvific"!

How this works is this. Their prize doctrines which may be true become all thats important. It assumes that no other foundation doctrine can fully be understood so cut everyone a break. As long as we are "sincere" and walk in "the light we have" we can disagree on the rest of Jesus teachings and we will still be saved.

Problem is to JESUS all his word is important!

Mike, I only did those 2 because I figured we could all agree on those.

I could’ve done the greatest commandment, even greater than Acts 2:38, and thats;

Matthew 22:36-40 KJVS
[36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[38] This is the first and great commandment.
[39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Without Love, you have no relationship with Jesus.

Also, what I mean by absolutes is that there is a certain criteria that we must submit to in order to be saved. For instance, I’m under the opinion you must believe there is one God. Now, it doesn’t say you have to completely understand and have scriptures quoted. No, it says you must believe. Mans ego or pride fills in the scripture when it should never be there.

[diakonos]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Maybe I dont need a dispensationalist, pagan holiday participating Pastor who is looking for the mark of the beast around every corner. But, I sure would miss Sister worship leader, that girl is anointed and can flat out sing.

Who poured oil over her?

[diakonos]

The problem is that people dont want to grow up and take responsibility for the ministry of reconciliation. They want to sit on a pew and be fed.

Jesus told Peter, “feed my sheep.” So many people wouldn’t need to be fed if they weren’t malnourished.

[diakonos]

On the other hand, I know church members that don’t believe they need a Pastor or Evangelist, there just an island unto themselves.

Me. And Wilson.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by diakonos

Jesus told Peter, “feed my sheep.” So many people wouldn’t need to be fed if they weren’t malnourished.

Sometimes you go to give rather than receive, go to pray, worship, and encourage others.

[consapente89]

Originally Posted by diakonos

Jesus told Peter, “feed my sheep.” So many people wouldn’t need to be fed if they weren’t malnourished.

3 times. Interestingly, he used 2 different words the 3 times he said “feed”. I don’t have time to finish my thought now, but Lord willing I will follow up in a bit. It certainly is enlightening to the role of the ministry, and repeated several times in the NT.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Mike, I’m going to copy what bird dog said, and that is perfecting is simply meaning mature.

You and I both know that when your saved by the words of Jesus and the Apostles, there is a walk of faith that you will be enduring. Look how Paul spoken of this;

2 Timothy 4:7 KJVS
[7] I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:


Did you ever look at this verse and wonder what is a “good” fight?
Is it a Mike Tyson 1st round knockout? No, its not!

For the sake of time I cannot provide the scriptures that will show in plain speech the maturing of the Apostle Paul. However, look at how the Apostle was used in Perfecting some of the church’s in his time.

Galatians 3:1-4 KJVS
[1] O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
[2] This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[3] Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
[4] Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

Perfecting (maturing) the church.

1 Corinthians 14:26-28 KJVS
[26] How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
[27] If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
[28] But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

Again, Perfecting (maturing) the church.

Is this scriptures saying there lost and going to split hell wide open? I don't believe so, I believe this is what the ministry is for. The perfecting of the body of Christ.

No way did I say there was no fight of faith. Or enduring. I exposed the truth that most Apostolic Preachers stand against the truth of sinless perfection. Obviously there is a maturing or growing in Christ.

But to act like overcoming sin consistently is not a part of it shows just how far modern preachers are from being Gods shepherds. To hear them tell it sin is greater than Gods grace.

All preachers that attack sinless perfection are either:

a. Tares to confuse the saints.
b. Sincere Christians who dont know Gods word rightly divided.

Thank God true ministry will be restored in the coming days for those who have ears to hear.

[1 God]

Originally Posted by coksiw

""Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood." - Acts 20:28 NKJV



"The elders who are among you I exhort, I who am a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that will be revealed: Shepherd the flock of God which is among you, serving as overseers, not by compulsion but willingly, not for dishonest gain but eagerly; nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock; and when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that does not fade away." - 1 Peter 5:1-4 NKJV


1 God, what people call "Pastors" nowadays are elders. Local assemblies do need elders, and saints do need to congregate and benefit from the ministries the Lord has put in the local assemblies.

There is Scripture in the NT of apostles being supported enough to be full time dedicated to ministry. There are no Scripture of elders as an office being supported to serve full time, though. So, in theory, to be fully supported, you should do work of missionary.

Local assemblies have saints, and the two only long term offices are elders and deacons. Apostles, evangelists, prophets, pastors-teachers, are works/functions. Those can be performed by any saint, as the Lord calls. In practices, the majority of those are elders, but we have examples in the NT of non-elders being called to work in those ministries.
When somebody is being called to be a "missionary" and an "evangelist" to another city, it is normal to call them "missionary" so and so, or "evangelist" so and so, because that's their role in that city. That's how you see in the Acts expressions like "the apostles and the elders". And those traveling ministries are accountable to the assembly that sent them.

Example:
"Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter." - Acts 15:6 NKJV


See the calling to do the work, the sending and the accountability back to the original assembly:


"As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, "Now separate to Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them." Then, having fasted and prayed, and laid hands on them, they sent [them] away." - Acts 13:2-3 NKJV

"So when they had appointed elders in every church, and prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord in whom they had believed." - Acts 14:23 NKJV

"From there they sailed to Antioch, where they had been commended to the grace of God for the work which they had completed. Now when they had come and gathered the church together, they reported all that God had done with them, and that He had opened the door of faith to the Gentiles." - Acts 14:26-27 NKJV



You do need an assembly to congregate, and that assembly needs the office of elders. And within the assembly the Lord will raise church planters, evangelists, prophets and pastor-tearchers. We all need each other brother. That's the way the Lord designed the Church to be. We do need elders and the 4 fold ministry in the assemblies as well, to grow healthy, and prosper, and mature, and multiply.

The modern version you defaulted to was created by self appointed shepherds of Jesus' flock. The KJV translators never called themselves shepherds, knowing it would make them thieves and robbers. They knew John 10 said there was only 1 single Shepherd with 5 fold helpers.

[1 God]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

What??? The Sctriptures where originally written in Hebrew and Greek???I am not refuting scripture with you, obviously believe in having elders. I never said in anything contrary. It is just terminology.

You quoted Greek words and "definitions". This is "Bible correcting". this is a modern 'scholar" deep diving into meanings he thinks it should rather have said. I simply use the KJV for defining itself. If I have trouble with an ancient English word, I have an old English dictionary to help me. The NKJV etc,(translators) directly contradict John 10, and they can care less too.

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.