Elephants in the Room

[votivesoul]

Elephant #1:

Every Christian I know, met, or have heard of, believes in, that is to say, acknowledges the existence of, the Devil/Satan/Dragon/Serpent and demons/evil spirits.

Furthermore, all of these Christians hold to certain prophetic and apocalyptical beliefs that these elements had/have/or will have a crucial role to play in global events, past, present, and/or future, due to their particular views of Revelation and other texts.

Yet, when obvious, consistent, global evil in the world is afoot and past examples can be pointed to, and current examples can be shown, and future possibilities can be responsibly articulated and predicted, the people doing so are frequently discredited, maligned, accused, challenged, dismissed, marginalized, or made fun of and laughed at as merely the semi-delusional tinfoil hat-wearing conspiracy theorist crowd of internet weirdos, summarized, at least at AFF, thusly:



Which is really strange, because I thought you believed in a real Devil/Satan/Dragon/Serpent (and demons/evil spirits) who did have, currently do have, or will someday have, a crucial role to play in global events? So why is he and they not even on your spiritual radar when obvious, consistent, global evil in the world is afoot?

[votivesoul]

Elephant #2

Every Christian I know, have met, or heard of, founds all that they are and all that they believe, on the Holy Scriptures of God, the Bible.

And yet, nowhere, in any place in all 66 books of those Holy Scriptures, does God ever quote Thomas Jefferson's Declaration of Independence.

What Mr. Jefferson called rights, we know from the Scriptures are privileges. Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness are ONLY granted to us by God if and when we obey Him and make Him the sole King and Savior of our souls. If we do not obey Him and make Him the sole King and Savior of our souls, God promises us death, slavery, and yielding up of happiness.

So, in times like these, or in any other times for that matter, why do Christians clamor for their "Rights" when if God Himself decides to pluck up a nation, and gives that nation over to the ungodly heathen to rape, pillage, and destroy it, do we think calling upon Thomas Jefferson is going to save us?

Is not the Declaration of Independence then, or the Constitution of the United States, just a piece of paper, to be dispensed with as the conquerors have need?

[votivesoul]

Elephant #3,

Paul wrote to Timothy and gave us a wonderful, architectural image of the church as the grounds and pillar of the truth.

Paul wrote to the Ephesians and the Colossians and gave us a wonderful, biological image of the church as the Body of Christ.

Paul wrote to the Corinthians and gave us a wonderful, nuptial image of the church as the virginal Bride of Christ.

Paul wrote to the Galatians and the Hebrews and gave us a wonderful, maternal image of the church as the New Jerusalem, the Mother of Us All.

And yet, this "Church" almost the entire world over, excepting a few defiant pockets here and there, has been completely leveled and laid low and rendered nearly useless in terms of its actual mission and purpose by a shaking of not only things on earth but also in heaven, and seemingly no one from this "Church" BOTHERS ASKING WHY GOD DID THIS HIS PEOPLE, they just kept (and keep) on going merrily along as if nothing has even happened, in cars and parking lots and social media videos and Zoom sessions, without so much as a single thought to give them any sense of pause or spiritual reflection or need to humble themselves with prayer and intercession or the calling of a solemn assembly?

I mean, the glory of the LORD leaves the temple in Ezekiel and no one bothers to ask why and only a few even bother mourning over it, and we don't see the parallels?

King Ahaz cuts up the articles of worship and nails the doors to the temple shut and sets up altars for people to worship at in every street corner and we don't see the parallels?

God says he despises and hates Israel's feast days and promises to wipe the animal dung from their sacrifices on their faces and would rather the temple be shut down completely and we don't see any parallels?

[Esaias]

Thank you for posting this. Very much needed in this hour.

[consapente89]

Very good insight.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Elephant #3,

Paul wrote to Timothy and gave us a wonderful, architectural image of the church as the grounds and pillar of the truth.

Paul wrote to the Ephesians and the Colossians and gave us a wonderful, biological image of the church as the Body of Christ.

Paul wrote to the Corinthians and gave us a wonderful, nuptial image of the church as the virginal Bride of Christ.

Paul wrote to the Galatians and the Hebrews and gave us a wonderful, maternal image of the church as the New Jerusalem, the Mother of Us All.

And yet, this "Church" almost the entire world over, excepting a few defiant pockets here and there, has been completely leveled and laid low and rendered nearly useless in terms of its actual mission and purpose by a shaking of not only things on earth but also in heaven, and seemingly no one from this "Church" BOTHERS ASKING WHY GOD DID THIS HIS PEOPLE, they just kept (and keep) on going merrily along as if nothing has even happened, in cars and parking lots and social media videos and Zoom sessions, without so much as a single thought to give then any sense of pause or spiritual reflection or need to humble themselves with prayer and intercession or the calling of a solemn assembly?

I mean, the glory of the LORD leaves the temple in Ezekiel and no one bothers to ask why and only a few even bother mourning over it, and we don't see the parallels?

King Ahaz cuts up the articles of worship and nails the doors to the temple shut and sets up altars for people to worship at in every street corner we don't see a parallels?

God says he despises and hates Israel's feast days and promises to wipe the animal dung from their sacrifices on their faces and would rather the temple be shut down completely and we don't see any parallels?

YES

[james34]

Great post, on target.

I believe the Bible speaks of these as scoffers.It said they would come (not before things were happening,but while they were happening)In the Last days. They would have an inability to discern or acknowledge that things were happening. The bible didnt say events were not happening, it said the scoffers believed nothing had changed or was happening. Apparently they were nelivers to some extent, perhaps more religious than anything else.

[Jito463]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Elephant #2

Every Christian I know, have met, or heard of, founds all that they are and all that they believe, on the Holy Scriptures of God, the Bible.

And yet, nowhere, in any place in all 66 books of those Holy Scriptures, does God ever quote Thomas Jefferson's Declaration of Independence.

What Mr. Jefferson called rights, we know from the Scriptures are privileges. Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness are ONLY granted to us by God if and when we obey Him and make Him the sole King and Savior of our souls. If we do not obey Him and make Him the sole King and Savior of our souls, God promises us death, slavery, and yielding up of happiness.

So, in times like these, or in any other times for that matter, why do Christians clamor for their "Rights" when if God Himself decides to pluck up a nation, and gives that nation over to the ungodly heathen to rape, pillage, and destroy it, do we think calling upon Thomas Jefferson is going to save us?

Is not the Declaration of Independence then, or the Constitution of the United States, just a piece of paper, to be dispensed with as the conquerors have need?

I would like to address this one aspect. I don't believe most God-fearing Christians who stand for what America was founded on, doesn't acknowledge that God has the right to take any of it away from us as He chooses. As Jesus said, 'not my will, but thine be done'.

Rather, we believe that only God has that right, not any man. So when we cite the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, it's in the sense that no other man has the right to take them away.

Obviously, if it's God's will, it will happen regardless of our preparations (for evidence, we need only look to Job), that doesn't mean we shouldn't endeavor to fight for those rights, regardless. That's why a common phrase is, that the price of freedom is eternal vigilance. We must be on constant watch to keep our rights from being taken away by man, while still acknowledging that God is in control.

[coksiw]

Elephant #1. Yes, however, beware of people sometime take it too far and attribute to the Devil more than they should. There is definitely something going on, but there is also a warning regarding attributing to the Satan too much, and undermining the understanding of God and his control.

Elephant #2. Excellent thought. Love it.

Elephant #3. When persecution in Jerusalem started, the Christians were all scattered throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria, except the apostles. Did the Christian sin for fleeing and stop assembling at large in the Temple courts? We don't even see the apostles themselves preaching at the Temple again after the widespread persecution.
Persecution is not the same as a plague, however, my point is that we can be flexible with the size of the gatherings when under an emergency situation, as long as we can gather. IMHO, what I just said is an elephant in the room. That being said, I agree that there is a group of people with certain believes system (e.g. progressive), that tend to be more oppressive and controlling on churches, that are taking advantage of this to show their power over the church and bother us. Also, to my knowledge, baptisms are still happening, people are being edified, and restrictions are already being eased.

[n david]

1) Yes, there is an enemy and there are evil spirits at play in the world. They do only what God allows.

I guess I'm one of those who challenge, dismiss, make fun or mock some of the exaggerated claims being made in recent posts on AFF. I do so because I believe they're just that, exaggerated claims.

For example, there was a post claiming that right now in America people are being forced to take COVID tests and, if positive, they're being taken away to a government-mandated facility with no visitors or being put under house arrest. The same post claimed you can't leave your house without submitting to a test; you're not allowed to associate with more than the gov approves and for only gov approved reasons. It claimed right now America is a "literal communist dictatorship."

It's this type of post that I will continue to challenge, dismiss, etc.

2) Not sure why this is considered an elephant. I don't know of anyone who disagrees that our rights are granted by God and can be removed at His will.

3) Do you believe the church is being judged? It appears from the post that you do.

Do you believe the glory of the Lord has left His people (being that He dwells in us, not in Temples)?

The altars King Ahaz built were for himself to worship false pagan gods, not for Jews to worship.

God despises and hates our churches?

Sure, there are many mainstream, and even a few A/P churches, who have become modernized and lost the meaning and mission of the church. But there are many more who have not and yet they, too, have suffered in this shutdown.