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03-24-2020, 06:08 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Wisconsin Dells
Posts: 2,941
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Re: Tony Spell has church in spite of the ban
A highly contagious disease. The government says do not meet in large groups. If several people in the church, or directly connected to the church are infected and die, there should be accountability. Legal accountability.
I do not hate anything. Well, traffic. I don't like traffic.
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03-24-2020, 06:24 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Unites States
Posts: 2,547
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Re: Tony Spell has church in spite of the ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Pitta
Willful negligence. Make the pastor and his deacons legally liable for the deaths that result from ignoring the risks of this pandemic.
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Can you make WalMart liable for the deaths that happen because people are shopping at Wal Mart that might be affected?
__________________
Jesus, Teach us How to war in the Spirit realm, rather than war in the carnal, physical realm. Teach us to be spiritually minded, rather than to be mindful of the carnal.
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03-24-2020, 06:27 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 2,982
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Re: Tony Spell has church in spite of the ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Pitta
Willful negligence. Make the pastor and his deacons legally liable for the deaths that result from ignoring the risks of this pandemic.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Pitta
A highly contagious disease. The government says do not meet in large groups. If several people in the church, or directly connected to the church are infected and die, there should be accountability. Legal accountability.
I do not hate anything. Well, traffic. I don't like traffic.
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I agree with the traffic thing. So we have common ground there.
But my question is specific.
How is Brother Spell responsible for a decision that I made?
Are you kidding?
I am an adult male. I make the decision to go to church. Nobody has the authority to force my decision. I am no child.
How is Brother Spell responsible/liable?
How about the other deacons/elders?
How are they liable?
I am not a slave. I am my own person.
Who is going to prosecute whom, and on what grounds? Because ultimately it is a legal matter. While I understand anybody can sue anyone, at anytime, for any reason, being found liable is another matter.
What would that look like?
It seems to me that you would be the laughingstock of the courtroom to attempt such a thing.
Last edited by Tithesmeister; 03-24-2020 at 06:30 PM.
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03-24-2020, 06:43 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,605
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Re: Tony Spell has church in spite of the ban
If mentally handicapped and/or elderly are involved....say picked up by church bus ministry...
And a pastors up there telling how “we ain’t skeert of no corona virus killing us, we have apostolic authority...just rap this prayer cloth around your neck and you’ll be fine...
And they end up dying from the virus that they for 100% certain got it there....
Their next of kin might go for the throat....so they might get somewhere
Outside of a possibility of that, I can’t see it...
__________________
If you would win a man to your cause, first convince him that you are his sincere friend. Therein is a drop of honey that catches his heart...
Abraham Lincoln
Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. - Eph. 4:29
Last edited by shag; 03-24-2020 at 06:47 PM.
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03-24-2020, 06:46 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 2,982
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Re: Tony Spell has church in spite of the ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968
Can you make WalMart liable for the deaths that happen because people are shopping at Wal Mart that might be affected?
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I believe you would be infinitely more likely to find Walmart liable than you would a church. Walmart is a for profit. The church is usually considered a nonprofit. It would be incredibly difficult to find Walmart liable, in my opinion. It would be extremely MORE difficult to find a pastor or elder liable, than Walmart. It certainly would never happen.
There is a reasonable expectation for Walmart to provide a healthy shopping experience.
A pastor? It would never happen. For what? Unlocking the doors? Failing to allow entrance to a legal adult?
An elder liable? Even more unlikely.
The church itself? What if I am part of the church? Would I be suing myself? That would be awkward!
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03-24-2020, 06:48 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 2,982
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Re: Tony Spell has church in spite of the ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by shag
If mentally handicapped and/or elderly are involved....say picked up by church bus ministry...
And a pastors up there telling how “we ain’t skeert of no corona virus killing us, we have apostolic authority...just rap this prayer cloth around your neck and you’ll be fine...
And they end up dying from the virus that they for 100% certain got it there....
Their next of kin might go for the throat....
Outside of a possibility of that, I can’t see it...
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In the case of children? I could see that. Otherwise mentally incompetent? Perhaps.
Legal adults? Not happening.
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03-24-2020, 06:49 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,605
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Re: Tony Spell has church in spite of the ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tithesmeister
In the case of children? I could see that. Otherwise mentally incompetent? Perhaps.
Legal adults? Not happening.
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Agreed.
__________________
If you would win a man to your cause, first convince him that you are his sincere friend. Therein is a drop of honey that catches his heart...
Abraham Lincoln
Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. - Eph. 4:29
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03-24-2020, 09:59 PM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,840
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Re: Tony Spell has church in spite of the ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Pitta
A highly contagious disease. The government says do not meet in large groups. If several people in the church, or directly connected to the church are infected and die, there should be accountability. Legal accountability.
I do not hate anything. Well, traffic. I don't like traffic.
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Forgetting legal liability for a moment what are you telling your community when you don't care enough about them to take the precautions medical experts and the government is asking you to do TEMPORARILY to suppress a deadly virus?
I could see this kind of rebellion if the government had announced some kind of permanent ban against churches meeting but to ask for a temporary one in these circumstances is not only reasonable but prudent.
This news story disappointed me greatly. I don't think the Spell's are bad people and in fact people I respect think the world of them. I just think they made a badly misguided judgement. I read one news story saying Tony Spell thinks the whole coronovirus thing is just a political thing and I guess if you are that kind of conspiracy theorist maybe in your own mind you could justify doing what he did.
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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03-24-2020, 10:10 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 2,982
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Re: Tony Spell has church in spite of the ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1
Forgetting legal liability for a moment what are you telling your community when you don't care enough about them to take the precautions medical experts and the government is asking you to do TEMPORARILY to suppress a deadly virus?
I could see this kind of rebellion if the government had announced some kind of permanent ban against churches meeting but to ask for a temporary one in these circumstances is not only reasonable but prudent.
This news story disappointed me greatly. I don't think the Spell's are bad people and in fact people I respect think the world of them. I just think they made a badly misguided judgement. I read one news story saying Tony Spell thinks the whole coronovirus thing is just a political thing and I guess if you are that kind of conspiracy theorist maybe in your own mind you could justify doing what he did.
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I may agree with you. It may or may not be the prudent thing to do. But I don’t see it as something that creates liability for the pastor, elders, or the church. Just because they open the church doors, doesn’t mean they are liable for the decisions of a thousand people. People are responsible for their own decisions. If the blind, follow the blind, well maybe they shouldn’t be doing that.
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03-24-2020, 10:11 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,195
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Re: Tony Spell has church in spite of the ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Pitta
A highly contagious disease. The government says do not meet in large groups. If several people in the church, or directly connected to the church are infected and die, there should be accountability. Legal accountability.
I do not hate anything. Well, traffic. I don't like traffic.
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He is living what he believes. He told them the church is essential and when every store is closed down then he will close but as long as Walmart, target, planed parenthood ect are open then he will be open. Sounds fair to me. He is not making anyone come. It all their own choices. Thank God for men of God love tony spell that won’t bend to anyone but God.
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