Hierarchies are for the World and not the Church

[Esaias]

Doesn't the very word "bishop" or episkopos ("overseer") imply a hierarchy of purpose and function?

I don't see radical egalitarianism in the Bible. Perhaps I am not understanding what is actually being presented in this thread?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Doesn't the very word "bishop" or episkopos ("overseer") imply a hierarchy of purpose and function?

I don't see radical egalitarianism in the Bible. Perhaps I am not understanding what is actually being presented in this thread?

Last time I checked.

[Monterrey]

I believe that God allows all of "Saved" humanity some choice over their place in the kingdom to a point.

Often times we set the perimeters and God will honor some of those perimeters because of the covenant.

The first level is the highest, that is the level of every man a priest. This was the first choice of God when they came out of Egypt.

Israel rebelled and said "No". Therefore God established the levitical ministry. Choice #2. We see after that there still being prophets and leaders who had a close relationship with the Spirit but most of Israel fell under heading #2, even though that wasn't his first choice.

Then there is #3 which is the king. This is the lowest possible spiritual level but still one that God accepts if this is the best He can get out of you.

Many in OP want a king so God gives them one. We shouldn't fault the king and we can't judge harshly the ones who want a king. Nor should we compare the ones who want a king with the ones in #2 or #1. Each level has different responsibilities and different costs involved.

When we deal with "hierarchies" in the church if we are not careful we want a "one size fits all". That is not right. Different people need different things and God know what each of us needs.

The problems come when we are trying to judge each situation from our view. Not good at all. We are not to judge another man's servant nor are we to judge ourselves among ourselves.

We let God set up the Church and allow some liberties within the church.

Some people are spiritual and that is alright. Others can make it with a general oversight of just the ministry and that is also alright. Still others need the king and that is also alright.

[berkeley]

Interesting POV.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Monterrey

I believe that God allows all of "Saved" humanity some choice over their place in the kingdom to a point.

Often times we set the perimeters and God will honor some of those perimeters because of the covenant.

The first level is the highest, that is the level of every man a priest. This was the first choice of God when they came out of Egypt.

Israel rebelled and said "No". Therefore God established the levitical ministry. Choice #2. We see after that there still being prophets and leaders who had a close relationship with the Spirit but most of Israel fell under heading #2, even though that wasn't his first choice.

Then there is #3 which is the king. This is the lowest possible spiritual level but still one that God accepts if this is the best He can get out of you.

Many in OP want a king so God gives them one. We shouldn't fault the king and we can't judge harshly the ones who want a king. Nor should we compare the ones who want a king with the ones in #2 or #1. Each level has different responsibilities and different costs involved.

When we deal with "hierarchies" in the church if we are not careful we want a "one size fits all". That is not right. Different people need different things and God know what each of us needs.

The problems come when we are trying to judge each situation from our view. Not good at all. We are not to judge another man's servant nor are we to judge ourselves among ourselves.

We let God set up the Church and allow some liberties within the church.

Some people are spiritual and that is alright. Others can make it with a general oversight of just the ministry and that is also alright. Still others need the king and that is also alright.

That is very good.

This must be because you have had a hoary head of wisdom since you were very young.

[CalledOut238]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Doesn't the very word "bishop" or episkopos ("overseer") imply a hierarchy of purpose and function?

I don't see radical egalitarianism in the Bible. Perhaps I am not understanding what is actually being presented in this thread?

Regarding your question about Bishop; Strong's G1984 episkopḗ; investigation, inspection, visitation, oversight. No, it does not imply a hierarchal purpose or function. Bishop, elders, pastors and apostles are ministerial designations that can be interchangeable. In 1Peter 5:1-3; we see the Apostle consider himself an elder, Peter compares himself equal to the other elders that he is exhorting. In verse three we find Peter instructing the elders not to subordinate; nor rule over the saints, rather to be the proper example for the saints to follow. This scripture clearly teaches ministers are not to be masters over the congregations and denounces the hierarchal argument.

1 Peter 5:1(KJV) The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed: 2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; 3 Neither as being lords (Strong's G2634) over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.

Strong's G2634: katakyrieúō; to bring under one's power, to subject one's self, to subdue, master

Strong's G5179: týpos; An example- A. in the technical sense, the pattern in conformity to which a thing must be made B. in an ethical sense, a dissuasive example, a pattern of warning of ruinous events which serve as admonitions or warnings to others C. an example to be imitated.

Christ’s life was our example to live a holy and righteous life. This should be the example of the elders or ministers. When ministers’ lives meet the qualifications; according to the examples set forth by the scriptures, it is wise to listen to the guidance they provide. Egalitarianism is a political doctrine of equality and has nothing to do with diversity of the functional members of the Body of Christ. The mind, eye, hand and foot differ yet their purpose is for the body as a whole to function properly.

John 13:13 (KJV) Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am. 14 If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet. 15 For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.

When Jesus asked Peter to feed the sheep it was a commandment; to nourish and serve his children, and not to subdue them. There is a harmonious system that has been instituted for the Body of Christ and that is to serve one another. We all offer up our lives as living sacrifices that others may have life. Leaders live their lives as examples and feed the sheep that they may be perfected.

Act 20:28 (KJV) Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Selah

[Evang.Benincasa]

In the LXX Numbers 7:2 uses ἐπισκοπῆς to show hierarchy.

[Apostolic1ness]

Matthew 23:11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
Luke 22:26 but ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.
1 cor 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

[CalledOut238]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

In the LXX Numbers 7:2 uses ἐπισκοπῆς to show hierarchy.

The Princes of the tribes of Israel; Heads of their Households, would be a genealogical hierarchy. But there really is no relevance to the members in the Body of Christ.

Catching up on some of your previous questions. Since I have discussed my relationship with my Pastor, I did not see why you would ask me if I had a Pastor. If the inquiry was in respect to if I have discussed my understanding with my Pastor, then yes I have. My Pastor holds the traditional protestant teaching that a Pastor is a gerent of the congregation. We each have to give account to our Heavenly Father; and as he has to give account for his walk, as I must give account to my walk.

In reference to the UPCI question, I can only assume you are asking my view on their organizational structure. My understanding is that each local congregation are independent churches who fellowship with the UPCI. The church typically pays dues; agreeing to common apostolic standards, with ministerial licenses process being approved by the UPCI. The reason congregations join organizations like UPCI is that it provides additional fellowshipping opportunities. This also allows local churches to support state, national and international charitable endeavors including missionaries throughout the US and foreign countries. It also gives opportunities for young people to have access to schools and colleges that would teach fundamental apostolic teachings for ministerial pursuits. The local congregation can choose to opt out and join with other organizations; like WPF, or choose not to be a part of any organization. I view the UPCI and WPF as extensions of the local congregation and optional. The local ministry and elders typically gets the local assembly's buy in on whether or not to join a organization like the UPCI.

I do see the positives an organization can offer to a local assembly. It is the decision of each congregation if they want to participate. I also see the negative aspects of ministers leveraging organizations for personal gain and creating competition among brethren. I also see it becoming a business model instead of a ministry which can be counterproductive.

Am I currently a Pastor of a church, No. I was licensed with UPCI; and was an assistant to my previous Pastor, and evangelized across several states. Because I did not agree with particular teachings; I felt it was not honest to keep and maintain my minister's license, so I did not renew. I do feel that our Heavenly Father is preparing me for ministerial work. But one cannot be an example to others unless he first learns to follow.

Hope this answers your questions. These questions though really have any no bearing on whether the Body of Christ was instituted as an hierarchal order. Ministers and saints have a designated position or place in the church. All saints should be respectful of the contribution that each of us bring to the Body of Christ.

John 13:35 (KJV) By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

Selah

[Apostolic1ness]

1 Corinthians 12:28 and God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after the miracles, then gifts of healing, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.