Seconds of Pre Embryonic Life of Jesus Christ?

[Sean]

Now, that is the result of the Col 2:9 effect on Him....after his resurrection.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Copying and pasting is trolling here? I have twisting nothing. Who is who here? Can you help me out? I looked it up myself just like you said to do. I mean it is the divine book right? No jot or tittle changed. So by all means please clarify this in the context of the thread.

These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.

8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.

14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.

26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

Yes you twisted my words about God having A God, after I said such an idea is nonsense.

Now, try again or forget any more chat from me...

Can you perceive the concept of God manifesting in flesh to see the Son of God born of a woman, and that God's person be the person of that Son? This maintains a distinction of the humanity having a God as well as his deity which cannot be said to have a God.

[Sean]

The humanity of whom having a God?

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Yes you twisted my words about God having A God, after I said such an idea is nonsense.

Now, try again or forget any more chat from me...

Can you perceive the concept of God manifesting in flesh to see the Son of God born of a woman, and that God's person be the person of that Son? This maintains a distinction of the humanity having a God as well as his deity which cannot be said to have a God.

I agreed with you that it is nonsense. Agreement is twisting? We are not chatting and this isn't coffee talk. What I am doing is posting verses and asking questions about those verses that you either can not or dare not answer.

I can easily perceive the concept of God manifesting Himself as anything He wants. Visions, dreams, burning bushes, clouds, thunders, lightning, whirlwind, etc etc etc.

So: Read this (Joshua 5)

13 And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries?

14 And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant?

15 And the captain of the LORD'S host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so.

1. This is a man with a sword
2. Joshua worshipped. ?The man?
3. The man with a sword introduced himself as "captain of the Lord's host"

Is this man with a sword not a possible manifestation of God, as a man? Do you see a difference between what is said to be a direct manifestation and a man praying to God? Again, like the burning bush, shoes off, holy ground, etc.
OR: If this man is not God, as he referred to the "Lord's host", is this not a messenger in human form and did Joshua worship this messenger as a representative of God.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

I agreed with you that it is nonsense. Agreement is twisting? We are not chatting and this isn't coffee talk. What I am doing is posting verses and asking questions about those verses that you either can not or dare not answer.

I can easily perceive the concept of God manifesting Himself as anything He wants. Visions, dreams, burning bushes, clouds, thunders, lightning, whirlwind, etc etc etc.

So: Read this (Joshua 5)

13 And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries?

14 And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant?

15 And the captain of the LORD'S host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so.

1. This is a man with a sword
2. Joshua worshipped. ?The man?
3. The man with a sword introduced himself as "captain of the Lord's host"

Is this man with a sword not a possible manifestation of God, as a man? Do you see a difference between what is said to be a direct manifestation and a man praying to God? Again, like the burning bush, shoes off, holy ground, etc.
OR: If this man is not God, as he referred to the "Lord's host", is this not a messenger in human form and did Joshua worship this messenger as a representative of God.

You know what you twisted. Stop that pattern and we can talk.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Keep telling yourself that. It's so simple though. John hears the alpha and omega call himself so, and speaks of sending letters. The he turns toward the source of the voice and finds its the son of man.

It's an explanation of who Jesus is. And then Jesus pixies and dictated the letters. The distinction is there between flesh and deity. But as Thomas called Jesus his Lord and God , and John said the word is God, and the word was made flesh, he is God and man.

So simple.

He is the mighty God according to Isaiah.

He is God with us. Immanuel.

He is the one Isaiah saw sitting in the throne with seraphim over his throne in Isaiah 6. Read John 12.

Jesus does and can speak for God as all of God's messengers do. If Jesus speaks words on behalf of God that are attributed to God these spoken words are always accompanied, in context, at the event, by separation clearly defining the place of Jesus and the place of God.

Example:

1.The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his <messenger> to his servant John,
2 who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ

Followed by "I am Alpha and Omega". God's words given. God's message delivered. This is what it says and this is exactly what happened.

The throne of God with God sitting on it is clearly outlined in Rev 4. Read it. I will not post it. It does not mention Jesus. It only describes the throne.
In Rev 5, which continues the story of the event, Jesus is NOT on that throne. In this chapter, Jesus is NOT occupying the throne of God.
We will review (again) and you can either tell me that there are either two or one entities or beings here or not. If you do not acknowledge two, then it is not I who is twisting words.
Jesus is not who you teach he is and if your teaching does not reflect one of the very few times that God's domain is either envisioned or described then your teaching is inaccurate and indeed false.
So, again, who is Jesus? Because you are the one who noted that this slain lamb is actually Jesus and if so then this event perfectly matches the vision of Stephen in Acts while being stoned.

1 Then I saw in the right hand of him who sat on the throne a scroll with writing on both sides and sealed with seven seals.
2 And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, “Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?”
3 But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it.
4 I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside.
5 Then one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals.”
6 Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing at the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. The Lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits[a] of God sent out into all the earth.
7 He went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne.
8 And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God’s people. 9 And they sang a new song, saying:

“You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
because you were slain,
and with your blood you purchased for God
persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.

10 You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God,
and they will reign[b] on the earth.”
11 Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand. They encircled the throne and the living creatures and the elders.
12 In a loud voice they were saying:

“Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain,
to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength
and honor and glory and praise!”
13 Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying:

“To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb
be praise and honor and glory and power,
for ever and ever!”
14 The four living creatures said, “Amen,” and the elders fell down and worshiped.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by mfblume

You know what you twisted. Stop that pattern and we can talk.

These verses seem to bother you.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Sean

WII, my concept of man becoming God supports the passage perfectly.

You also read it. There are two. One seems to always defer to the other. But I dunno. So I'm sticking with what's written down and what it literally says.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Sean

Mike, that is not how you debate.

Defend yourself.

A good defense is to pretend John 12 refers to Isaiah 6 (instead of Isaiah 53 which it actually references LOL) and see if the koolaid looks tempting.

That's a little bit of a twist, is it not?

But: I miss the sound of crickets. So I put John 12 and Isaiah 53 side by side just to hear them.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by mfblume

You know what you twisted. Stop that pattern and we can talk.

I pointed out what you twisted. Guilty or not guilty? Isaiah 6 or Isaiah 53? Answer please.