Seconds of Pre Embryonic Life of Jesus Christ?

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Sean, leave the forum.

You are a dummy.

Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Laughing again? Explain this one. I put the whole chapter for you to use but I really, really need to hear you explain what the highlighted / bolded / italic part means. Please, by all means, teach away. You can even sprinkle in some giggles and insults but the below seems pretty clear to me.

I don't know about you but I sure would feel dumb if I cut and pasted words from a chapter that clearly and distinctly says "my father is greater than I" while trying to put some doctrine together that they "really are one and the same". Does that feel dumb or does it just sound dumb? Please answer.

14 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.

30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Sean

3 Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.(including all of your verses)

Can it be plainer than that?

Now, my point is, the vast majority of all Christians deny the scriptural, independent man, Christ Jesus(last Adam).

Our muslim friends see this error, so we could never convince them of the 1st century truth, because we dont teach it ourselves.

You missed verse 28 when you tagged verse 10.

Regretfully I'm going to have a little fun with this one.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Sean, what blindness? Jesus said He was the Father. If you looked at Him you were looking at the Father. Pretty simple. If you get to veerse ten it even gets clearer, Jesus and the Father were one and the same. You don't believe that? Then you and your fake Muslim brother can go start a church in Mecca California.

See? Jesus says it right here, plain and simple, right in that chapter

I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

teeheehee teeheehee teeheehee

Fixed your post preacher. It was misleading. You should have read it all. Like I do. Do you believe these words of Jesus or not? You are right. It is pretty simple. Read it again. Still laughing? I have to admit, I am. You preachers are all alike. This is way too easy.
You need to pick up that book, really read it, and come back when you are ready to take what it says and teach it. You are accomplishing nothing breaking into what was a serious discussion with your pitter patter nonsense. This is not your fawning congregation here. Rules: You will be intellectually honest and forthright or all of your posts here will be neatly eviscerated like a freshly caught fish.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

You missed verse 28 when you tagged verse 10.

Regretfully I'm going to have a little fun with this one.

I know you will.

This thread has been a blast watching DB and company run, duck and hide from all the verses like yours I have been posting from all over the Bible.

Maybe you can get them to explain the verses you are posting, because I have had no such luck.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Sean

I know you will.

This thread has been a blast watching DB and company run, duck and hide from all the verses like yours I have been posting from all over the Bible.

Maybe you can get them to explain the verses you are posting, because I have had no such luck.

Is it truly that bad then? These people really teach what is written means something else and not a single individual points a finger at these words and asks what they mean? How? There must be 50 different translations available to open and read.

Expect an answer? No, I do not. They must not answer them. They can not. If these verses are acknowledged the pact that they all signed together crumbles down and a whole new understanding of who Jesus is has to be built and taught. They are bound to no answer by the very pact that they signed that says the clipped and snipped version of doctrine and who the doctrine says Jesus is must be adhered to or they themselves are thrown out of the fellowship of the pact.

Otherwise they could and would have the freedom to read it, understand it, and incorporate it as one complete and consistent teaching.

Yet: Somehow sections of every single new testament book are snipped out of what is taught? Does not anyone read? How is this missed if it is read?

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

You are a dummy.

"For as the crackling of thorns under a pot, so is the laughter of the fool: this also is vanity." Ecc 7:6

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

A revelation of Jesus? Sorry, that's not what it says.

It says: The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him

Not "A revelation of Jesus". It is a revelation FROM Jesus.

It then says:

He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,
2 who testifies to everything he saw--that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The Word of God is the message: I am the Alpha and Omega. As I said, "angel" is the incorrect translation here. The actual word is "messenger". The messenger "testifies"
The Words are From God Through the Messenger, who is Jesus Christ.

Then, for the dimmer switches who may read the passage hundreds of years later, it provides further clarification:

To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father

Whose God and Father is this referring to? I think that the last time I asked you this your bulb went out. Does God have a God?

Of course is from him since he received it. The great humanity and deity as Christ.

When you ask if God has A God you confuse the issue since the entire point is that God is manifest in flesh, and the humanity of that flesh has a God. Humanity is not deity. But His person had both humanity and deity. The humanity has a God or it wouldn't be humanity.

You avoid verse 11 through 13. John saw the one who called himself almighty as the son of man.

Try again

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Is it truly that bad then? These people really teach what is written means something else and not a single individual points a finger at these words and asks what they mean? How? There must be 50 different translations available to open and read.

Expect an answer? No, I do not. They must not answer them. They can not. If these verses are acknowledged the pact that they all signed together crumbles down and a whole new understanding of who Jesus is has to be built and taught. They are bound to no answer by the very pact that they signed that says the clipped and snipped version of doctrine and who the doctrine says Jesus is must be adhered to or they themselves are thrown out of the fellowship of the pact.

Otherwise they could and would have the freedom to read it, understand it, and incorporate it as one complete and consistent teaching.

Yet: Somehow sections of every single new testament book are snipped out of what is taught? Does not anyone read? How is this missed if it is read?

As I posted earlier in this thread, the Bible does not teach God became a man, but that a man(last Adam) became God.


I will describe what has happened since the 5th century in a nutshell.

The Catholic church in the 5th century invented and propped up "hypostatic union".

It was embraced for 1500 years by most of Christendom.

The oneness pioneers of the early 20th century began to see a little clearer, shed the titles in water baptism, shed the trin doctrine, but MODIFIED the H/U doctrine.

What oneness and trin have been doing for a century now, is debating their view of the Catholic, H/U doctrine, that was modified by oneness elders.

If they would have only checked their source of H/U in the beginning of oneness, they could have started from scratch like I did.

Now, they must stick to their story because they formed a denomination, and denominations rarely introduce new doctrines.

Mother Catholic Church is sitting back, observing her daughters(protestants), that are bound by her deceptions.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Of course is from him since he received it. The great humanity and deity as Christ.

When you ask if God has A God you confuse the issue since the entire point is that God is manifest in flesh, and the humanity of that flesh has a God. Humanity is not deity. But His person had both humanity and deity. The humanity has a God of it wouldn't be humanity.

You avoid verse 11 through 13. John saw the one who called himself almighty as the son of man.

Try again

God's humanity has a God?

The humanity of God is not God, lest God has a God?

The man, Christ Jesus is not God, but humanity only?

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Of course is from him since he received it. The great humanity and deity as Christ.

When you ask if God has A God you confuse the issue since the entire point is that God is manifest in flesh, and the humanity of that flesh has a God. Humanity is not deity. But His person had both humanity and deity. The humanity has a God or it wouldn't be humanity.

You avoid verse 11 through 13. John saw the one who called himself almighty as the son of man.

Try again

There is nothing for me to avoid. John saw the messenger and heard the messenger pass the message. From God. There is no "try". That is what it says.
The verse refers to the God of Jesus. I am not at all confused. If Jesus was the messenger in Revelation and if Jesus taught in John that "my father is greater than I" and Revelation refers to God as God of Jesus then it seems I am seeing a consistant picture across the new testament of who Jesus is. You have unfortunately been unsucessful in demonstrating that Jesus is who you teach he is and the more you speak in direct contrast to what the words in front of you say the more confused about it you sound.