Whaaaaaaatt???? What's happening in Canada??

[Birdie]

Just want to have my say on this topic. I'm not into all the political debting etc but have heard from excellent sources, a lot of the old timers, that they would love Canada to be independant of the U.S.A. because they were hood-winked by them in the beginning when they joined up with them. When "the message" came to Canada it was not one of such strictness and they weren't looking for all the standards that came with signing up with the U.S.A. The old timers say they just wanted to see people accept Jesus as Lord and Savior and then as they matured in the Lord, get baptized and filled with the Spirit. They believed that the repentant man/woman had to understand salvation and then grow in the Lord. (Be baptized and filled with the Spirit). Too many rules and regulations for the old timers and they say all this "foolishness" of standards has done more harm than good. Now don't get me wrong. They believe in holiness unto God but all this man-made stuff is for the birds. No pun intended.

[Maple Leaf]

Originally Posted by Birdie

Just want to have my say on this topic. I'm not into all the political debting etc but have heard from excellent sources, a lot of the old timers, that they would love Canada to be independant of the U.S.A. because they were hood-winked by them in the beginning when they joined up with them. When "the message" came to Canada it was not one of such strictness and they weren't looking for all the standards that came with signing up with the U.S.A. The old timers say they just wanted to see people accept Jesus as Lord and Savior and then as they matured in the Lord, get baptized and filled with the Spirit. They believed that the repentant man/woman had to understand salvation and then grow in the Lord. (Be baptized and filled with the Spirit). Too many rules and regulations for the old timers and they say all this "foolishness" of standards has done more harm than good. Now don't get me wrong. They believe in holiness unto God but all this man-made stuff is for the birds. No pun intended.

Welcome aboard Birdie.

It's always great to have another Canadian show up.

Having said that, I pretty much disagree with your whole post.

[Thad]

Originally Posted by Thad

I heard that the ACOP will baptize people either way.

I heard this from someone who was in it and said that they had become to weak doctrinally for them.

said that that even some churches were trinitarian now ???

I'm nost there so I don't know for sure just going on what was told to me from someone from Alberta

BUMP * * *

[Birdie]

Originally Posted by Maple Leaf

Welcome aboard Birdie.

It's always great to have another Canadian show up.

Having said that, I pretty much disagree with your whole post.

First. I didn't say I was Canadian and sorry if I misled you to believe that. Second, ask the old time retired preachers their feelings on this topic. They have a lot of years of experience and truly believe that things in Canada have strayed from the way they first started out preaching and believing. Now, some may have come on board with the doctrinal teaching of the U.S.A. but that was not their intent when they first started ministering in the New Brunswick area. Their mission was to see souls saved and lives changed. Ask them about the old days and how things were before the UPC. I think you will be greatly surprised.

[Truly Blessed]

Originally Posted by Birdie

First. I didn't say I was Canadian and sorry if I misled you to believe that. Second, ask the old time retired preachers their feelings on this topic. They have a lot of years of experience and truly believe that things in Canada have strayed from the way they first started out preaching and believing. Now, some may have come on board with the doctrinal teaching of the U.S.A. but that was not their intent when they first started ministering in the New Brunswick area. Their mission was to see souls saved and lives changed. Ask them about the old days and how things were before the UPC. I think you will be greatly surprised.

Some folks are simply too young to know anything but a district that was already UPC.

[TrueNorth]

Originally Posted by Birdie

Just want to have my say on this topic. I'm not into all the political debting etc but have heard from excellent sources, a lot of the old timers, that they would love Canada to be independant of the U.S.A. because they were hood-winked by them in the beginning when they joined up with them. When "the message" came to Canada it was not one of such strictness and they weren't looking for all the standards that came with signing up with the U.S.A. The old timers say they just wanted to see people accept Jesus as Lord and Savior and then as they matured in the Lord, get baptized and filled with the Spirit. They believed that the repentant man/woman had to understand salvation and then grow in the Lord. (Be baptized and filled with the Spirit). Too many rules and regulations for the old timers and they say all this "foolishness" of standards has done more harm than good. Now don't get me wrong. They believe in holiness unto God but all this man-made stuff is for the birds. No pun intended.

This is like saying that all pioneer preachers had blond hair. It just ain't so.
I do know that much of the "strictiness" came with the teaching of some Bro.'s from the Excited States however some of the homegrown elders were very strict themselves.

[Ron]

Originally Posted by Maple Leaf

Who has it right?

TrueNorth posted that there is no story here.

Ron posted that there is more to the story than put forth.

What is being handled and put forth in such a way that it is making a lot of ministers upset?

Thad hit on the scent of controversy. Let's see if he can sniff out the whole story.

It has been suggested that Canada create a Sister Organization-the question has to be asked "Why" an d what are the "real motives?"

Is it truly in the "Kingdom Of God's" interest?

[Maple Leaf]

Originally Posted by Birdie

. . . Too many rules and regulations for the old timers and they say all this "foolishness" of standards has done more harm than good. Now don't get me wrong. They believe in holiness unto God but all this man-made stuff is for the birds. No pun intended.

Here is a footnote from Professor Fudge's book, "Christianity Without the Cross" (Footnote 39; Page 283). These rules were posted almost three decades before the UPC even existed.

For example, rules were posted on the wall of the UPC church in St. Stephen, New Brunswick from the 1920s to the 1960s.

'These are published in behalf of Holiness, Godliness and Purity and for the advancement of God's Kingdom.

1). That no member shall use tobacco in cigar, cigarette, chewing, pipe, snuff, or any other form.

2). That no sister member shall wear short hair, bobbed, shingled, or any other style that is not long enough to be "put up." If for any reason a sister is compelled to cut her hair, for such as sickness, skin disease etc., it will be necessary for such a one to give a satisfactory explanation to the assembly. (Please note this rule does not include children, but is applied to "women." Neither does it apply to new converts who have not had sufficient time to let their hair grow).

3). That no member shall have "permanent waves."

4). That no member shall appear in public without stockings. The only place where no stockings is proper is in your chamber.

5). That no sister member shall wear "sleeveless dresses" in church, on the street, or any public place.

6). That the sister members' dress will be sufficiently long to cover their limbs in a "modest" manner at all times and that they will dress at all times in such a manner as becometh women professing Godliness. 1 Timothy 2.10

7). That no member shall go to the theatre, moving picture, or any other similar worldly thing or endorse (by giving money or aiding in any other way) their children who are under age in going.

In case of violation of any above rules, the offender will be asked to appear in due time before a meeting of the church board, and the case be dealt with in a logical scriptural manner, and to the best of the wisdom and ability of the board in the fear of Almighty God, and the Day of Judgment. The acceptance or rejection of the member will be announced to the Church. May God save us from the judgement of the "Days of Noah" and the "Days of Lot" which we are in.'

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by TrueNorth

This is like saying that all pioneer preachers had blond hair. It just ain't so.
I do know that much of the "strictiness" came with the teaching of some Bro.'s from the Excited States however some of the homegrown elders were very strict themselves.

Ever hear of McKellops & McElroy & Buster????????????? That is so.

[TopDog]

Originally Posted by Thad

I heard that the ACOP will baptize people either way.

I heard this from someone who was in it and said that they had become to weak doctrinally for them.

said that that even some churches were trinitarian now ???

I'm nost there so I don't know for sure just going on what was told to me from someone from Alberta

This was all discussed at some length back on FCF/nFCF......

Having been part of the UPC for many years, but now living in Alberta and having been to many ACOP churches both here and back in New Brunswick, I would have to agree in part with your statement regarding the ACOP's Godhead stance.

I personally know ACOP ministers who baptize in Jesus name, and others in Jesus name AND FSHG together. The ACOP seems to offer such a degree of latitude in this area that even though many likely baptize in Jesus name they would be mildly amused to hear that folks consider them to be "oneness". I don't think they've institutionalized the oneness versus trinitarian "thing" to the extent that other groups have. They don't see baptism in 'Jesus name as making them "oneness" as other groups would - or in making them NOT trinitarian as some groups may perceive. They have OTHER priorities..... :sshhh

My two cents......(BTW - I happen to agree with them even though I don't currently attend an ACOP church)