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[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

While you want to define words properly, why don't you define the proper word for "Men" in Deut. 22:5? It is "warrior". We can go back and forth on this all we want,

Not really, it is pretty simple really. The Hebrew word is gebar, which actually means, strong man, a valiant man. Don't fall into the trap of assassinating a scripture verse in hopes that it will all go away. Deuteronomy 22:5 is against gender blending, crossdressing. Not about Chinese women in a rice patty crossdressing or The African Wodaabe or Bororoare crossdressing males.

It is about one chosen people whose remnant respected the covenant with their God. They kept those laws in their minds. They were the true worshippers who worshipped the Father in spirit and truth. Even to the point of losing their temple they were still able to open the windows and face where the temple was located and pray. As we see in the Bible, males wore pants, and we have no record in the Bible of women wearing pants.

In Numbers 24:15 the word "geber" is used in reference of Balaam. We know he isn't considered a warrior. The word just means a man capable of strength. Like a healthy male? The Hebrew word is used in many verses which have nothing to do with a "warrior as in exclusively military " Job 3:3, Job 3:23, Job 4:17, Job 14:10, and many more to list. But if these scriptures which have the Hebrew geber don't pertain to humans, then we have some scriptures which need to be reevaluated because they don't pertain to us.
In other words in hopes to lessen the impact of Deuteronomy 22:5 you just cause greater issues down the road. Kinda like James LeDeaying your way through the Bible.

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

but the fact is those that teach that the men's apparel in this passage is speaking specifically of pants, or split legged garments, or anything that pertains to a man.

It's speaking about crossdressing, but I guess that is easier for a Transvestite to see. Churchians make excuses and justify so much in their own lives. That the old rank and file sinners just walk away shaking their heads.

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Need to be consistent and teach anything that looks like a man's garment cannot be worn by a women, and vise versa.

Sad when people's only save is straining at the gnat to swallow the camel.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Pliny

Since no reference was given for the "warrior" definition we are left to wonder where the reference comes from, Strong's or perhaps BDB?

It is fascinating that the Hebrew scholars that translated the Hebrew into Greek used the word ἀνδρὸς which simply means man:
http://perseus.uchicago.edu/perseus-...rue&lang=greek

This word is found throughout the LXX but here are some examples:
Gen 2:23
Lev. 20:10
Num. 30:16

So, based on this quick analysis we are left with two possible explanations for the interpretation.
If the translation is accepted as "warrior" then, it must be understood that women are called women because they were "taken from a warrior" (Gen. 2:23).

Adultery must be limited to "warriors" because Lev. 20:10 only mentions "warriors" as committing adultery and leaves the rest of "men" out of the formula.

The statutes enumerated by Moses in Numbers chapter 30 must also be restricted to "warriors" since this is the same word and therefore translation (Num. 30:16).

There are many other examples as well...

However, if the Greek word ἀνδρὸς is interpreted as man then, the above passages would mean:
A woman is called a "woman" because she was "taken out of man" (Gen. 2:23).
That adultery is not limited to warriors but all men (Lev. 20:10).
The statutes enumerated in Numbers chapter 30 apply to all men and not just "warriors".

Now BDB states that in Deu. 22:5 the definition for man is:
גּבר
geber
BDB Definition:
1) man, strong man, warrior (emphasizing strength or ability to fight)

Strong's states:
From H1396; properly a valiant man or warrior; generally a person simply: - every one, man, X mighty.


Thus, there are multiple "translations" for the word. To pick a single definition out and demand that the singular definition is ALL that it can mean is fallacious. It must mean what the author intended it to mean. Those Hebrew scholars who translated the Hebrew into Greek were experts in both languages. They chose a Greek word that simply means "man" not "warrior" as suggested.

I will accept the fact that the Hebrew word גּבר (geber) is properly translated into other languages as man.

Good show, bravo!

[Evang.Benincasa]

Very modest, very nicely conservative was the young Katherine Hepburn.

Yet, everyone and their uncle knew she dressed and looked like a man.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I raised seven kids as a single income parent (wife is a homemaker). I worked construction, 10 bucks an hour, seasonal layoffs, had some down time (some lasting several months at a stretch). Got a job making 10 bucks an hour, after 8 yrs was making 16 an hour. I calculated inflation, discovered I was actually making less than when I started.

Raised seven kids, several dogs, bought a home paid it off in three and a half years, bought a suburban, paid cash, bought a van paid cash, bought second suburban when first went kaput, paid cash again, bought a nice 4x4 F250 king cab made payments of 500 per month and paid it off in a couple years. Homeschooled the kids the whole time. Did not take welfare, food stamps, or govt assistance. Lived in neighborhoods you'd be afraid to be in after dark but we never locked our doors and often just had the screen door keeping the world out. Never had a problem with any break ins.

One neighbor went to prison for shooting his wife's boyfriend in the front yard about 3 lots down from us. Once I had to go visit a neighbor with the sheriff deputy and politely inform the guy if he entered my yard again and said cross words to my son he wouldnt make it home again. In a previous neighborhood had a neighbor go to jail after they found a body bagged up in freezer bags in his refrigerator.

Once we lived in a neighborhood (long ago) where literally half the residents were parolees or released felons, about 1/3 were Aryan Brotherhood and another 1/3 were Latin King subsets, plus two pimps, lots of drunks, assorted crack heads and crank heads (meth addicts). They all knew who to go see if they needed prayer, though.

Half my kids are adults now. None ever went to jail or had any trouble with the law or courts. They know more than ALL of the public school kids they've ever interacted with from well to do cousins to local riff raff. They turned out way better than I did at their age, that's a guaranteed fact. They actually have morals and don't give two hoots about "peer pressure", they tend to lead not follow. They can handle themselves in a church sanctuary, a ghetto alley, a boxing gym, or a family picnic at the park equally well. They are generally frugal with money (more than I was for sure), have investments in real estate, can butcher wild game, build shelter in the wild with no tools, prepare fancy multi course meals or live on wild plants. One daughter is a CNA, another can perform tactical combat casualty care just short of running an IV, older son codes in C, C++, Python, and assembly, has built microbots, all of the older ones can debate a JW or Baptist into oblivion right on the doorstep, they all know how to pray like the world depends on them, and they will literally do whatever they can to help anyone out even to their own detriment.

We are living proof that it doesn't take a lot of money and a perfect environment to raise a family that knows God and can serve their generation. It just takes a bit of faith and some of what we in Texas call "want to".

Wow.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I raised seven kids as a single income parent (wife is a homemaker). I worked construction, 10 bucks an hour, seasonal layoffs, had some down time (some lasting several months at a stretch). Got a job making 10 bucks an hour, after 8 yrs was making 16 an hour. I calculated inflation, discovered I was actually making less than when I started.

Raised seven kids, several dogs, bought a home paid it off in three and a half years, bought a suburban, paid cash, bought a van paid cash, bought second suburban when first went kaput, paid cash again, bought a nice 4x4 F250 king cab made payments of 500 per month and paid it off in a couple years. Homeschooled the kids the whole time. Did not take welfare, food stamps, or govt assistance. Lived in neighborhoods you'd be afraid to be in after dark but we never locked our doors and often just had the screen door keeping the world out. Never had a problem with any break ins.

One neighbor went to prison for shooting his wife's boyfriend in the front yard about 3 lots down from us. Once I had to go visit a neighbor with the sheriff deputy and politely inform the guy if he entered my yard again and said cross words to my son he wouldnt make it home again. In a previous neighborhood had a neighbor go to jail after they found a body bagged up in freezer bags in his refrigerator.

Once we lived in a neighborhood (long ago) where literally half the residents were parolees or released felons, about 1/3 were Aryan Brotherhood and another 1/3 were Latin King subsets, plus two pimps, lots of drunks, assorted crack heads and crank heads (meth addicts). They all knew who to go see if they needed prayer, though.

Half my kids are adults now. None ever went to jail or had any trouble with the law or courts. They know more than ALL of the public school kids they've ever interacted with from well to do cousins to local riff raff. They turned out way better than I did at their age, that's a guaranteed fact. They actually have morals and don't give two hoots about "peer pressure", they tend to lead not follow. They can handle themselves in a church sanctuary, a ghetto alley, a boxing gym, or a family picnic at the park equally well. They are generally frugal with money (more than I was for sure), have investments in real estate, can butcher wild game, build shelter in the wild with no tools, prepare fancy multi course meals or live on wild plants. One daughter is a CNA, another can perform tactical combat casualty care just short of running an IV, older son codes in C, C++, Python, and assembly, has built microbots, all of the older ones can debate a JW or Baptist into oblivion right on the doorstep, they all know how to pray like the world depends on them, and they will literally do whatever they can to help anyone out even to their own detriment.

We are living proof that it doesn't take a lot of money and a perfect environment to raise a family that knows God and can serve their generation. It just takes a bit of faith and some of what we in Texas call "want to".

Honestly, I wouldn't raise my kids near any of that kind of thing. I guess in our position, we sacrifice quite a bit with both of us working... to ensure our kids are raised in a relatively safe and descent neighborhood. I grew up in East Dayton, Ohio. It was basically the ghetto. Not returning to that. No way. I'm not going to allow my kids to know the fear I had while growing up with the sound of shooting people being killed every other week. I was shot at twice back when I was in high school. Most of my friends got mixed up in drugs and ended up dead or in jail. I almost got wrapped up in the mess a few times. But mom beat the hades out of me when I messed up. It was like being on lockdown quite a lot through my teenage years.

Nope. We've ensured that the kids are in a descent neighborhood, descent school, and live in a descent clean and functional home. It takes both of us working. It also teaches Addison that a woman can work, be a professional, and raise a family. The two are not mutually exclusive. And it teaches my son the value of partnership and the struggle to rise above what you knew to something greater.

My kids are pretty intelligent. My son is only ten and building small electric engines and circuit boards. He built a PC for his 10th birthday. Both are very computer literate. Addison is also rather bright. She's into art and music. She shows her intelligence through the crazy things she's come up with. And yes, my kids are also very moral, respectful, and God conscious.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Honestly, I wouldn't raise my kids near any of that kind of thing. I guess in our position, we sacrifice quite a bit with both of us working... to ensure our kids are raised in a relatively safe and descent neighborhood. I grew up in East Dayton, Ohio. It was basically the ghetto. Not returning to that. No way. I'm not going to allow my kids to know the fear I had while growing up with the sound of shooting people being killed every other week.

Nope. We've ensured that the kids are in a descent neighborhood, descent school, and live in a descent clean and functional home.

Oh you are living way beyond your means.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Oh you are living way beyond your means.

How so? With both of us working, we do well. And our kids aren't growing up in the meth infested ghettos of the wild-west. lol

We're in a solidly Middle Class neighborhood. I've lived in this neighborhood since I got out of the military. The issue is renting. I need to buy again. The average mortgage is only about $500 a month.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

How so? With both of us working, we do well. And our kids aren't growing up in the ghettos of the wild-west. lol

Your wife would be able to stay home with her children. If you lived in an area which was more affordable. Sounds like from your posting you created the situation which needs two incomes. Do you have debt?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Your wife would be able to stay home with her children. If you lived in an area which was more affordable. Sounds like from your posting you created the situation which needs two incomes. Do you have debt?

My wife wouldn't want to stay home in a meth infested ghetto. Duh. Kids at school, her at home...a lone. Alone in a crime ridden, meth infested ghetto. That's not anything either of us would feel comfortable with. No way. Oh, but we could them homeschool... and then both her and the kids are right there, in the heart of a crime ridden, meth infested ghetto. Nope. Not happenin' my man.

Besides, she's worked all her life. She's no barefoot and pregnant kind of lady. Her first husband was in the Air Force and had her living in Ely, UK. Had her doing the "house wife" thing. She hated it. After he lost his mind and became a violent, cheating, alcoholic they got a divorce and she toured Western Europe (Britain, France, Belgium, the Netherlands). She's educated, and got a job working at Solvay Automotive's Engineering Department. She had that job until she had Addison (my step). When Addison became old enough, Christina got board and got a job at St. Vincent de Paul, a Catholic Charity that runs a clothing closet, homeless shelter, and serves struggling families through voucher programs for furniture and supplies. She has a passion for charity work. During the summers she has the kids volunteer with serving food to families in the pantry and with bundling clothes for distribution to various shelters. If she was a boring old house wife, I think I'd puke. lol

Here are some pictures of the little lady and our kids...

[Esaias]

So, nice comfy home with all the amenities, secured by Momma playing the role of second husband and Junior sent off to be taught the wisdom of the Chaldeans? I guess at least its a "good" Chaldean brainwashing center?

You really can't see how what you are doing is actually akin to laying your foundation in your firstborn?

The "sacrifices" you make create an unnatural and unbiblical environment for your child that is more dangerous than growing up in Compton, and you create that situation so you can "give the kid a good upbringing" by giving him into the hands of perverts, infidels, and Christ haters to be "educated"? It's like a woman who wants to look pretty so she gouges up her face with surgery and now looks like the Joker.

Assuming of course by "good schools" you meant public schools.

But considering your unswerving loyalty to real communists like Bernie Sanders, amd your support of the entire leftist programme against western civilization, it would make sense that in your quest to secure a happy childhood for your child you would practically destroy the "home" in the process.