Refuting Christian Zionism

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

So if you can't win someone through love, beat the snot out of them to win a conversion?

That notion's exactly why the futurist scheme of prophecy fails, IMHO.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

So if you can't win someone through love, beat the snot out of them to win a conversion?

You sure you aren't going to join Islam?

Jesus had compassion and offered loving warnings for sinners. However, I don't believe anyone would ever dispute that Christ's harshest words were reserved for the Pharisees, Sadducees, and the religiously self-righteous.

[Aquila]

Personally, I don't see how any Christian could support Zionism. And I'm a futurist.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Jesus had compassion and offered loving warnings for sinners. However, I don't believe anyone would ever dispute that Christ's harshest words were reserved for the Pharisees, Sadducees, and the religiously self-righteous.

What has that got to do with the concept that if Israel won't accept Christ then God will smash them and torture them to win them over? Punishment like that ends in damnation, not salvation. God does not torture people so they will serve Him.

Let that sink in and premillennialism will fly out the window.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mfblume

What has that got to do with the concept that if Israel won't accept Christ then God will smash them and torture them to win them over? Punishment like that ends in damnation, not salvation. God does not torture people so they will serve Him.

Let that sink in and premillennialism will fly out the window.

What does that have to do with premillennialism?

Anyway, Zionism is political propaganda masquerading as religion. While most futurists are Zionists, not all are. And not all Zionists are futurists.

Rejecting Zionism doesn't automatically leave partial preterism as the only option, either.

Where'd all these crazy ideas come from?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

What does that have to do with premillennialism?

Anyway, Zionism is political propaganda masquerading as religion. While most futurists are Zionists, not all are. And not all Zionists are futurists.

Rejecting Zionism doesn't automatically leave partial preterism as the only option, either.

Where'd all these crazy ideas come from?

Pre mil teaching says there is a future tribulation that occurs before the millennium. And it is hammering Israel during that time. Why? To move Israel to accept Him so that in the millennium they smarten up and no longer reject Him.

Any other reasons God hammers Israel in a future tribulation?

No one said all futurists are zionists.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Esaias

What does that have to do with premillennialism?

Anyway, Zionism is political propaganda masquerading as religion. While most futurists are Zionists, not all are. And not all Zionists are futurists.

Rejecting Zionism doesn't automatically leave partial preterism as the only option, either.

Where'd all these crazy ideas come from?

Nor all who hold a pro-Israel position Zionists. As a private citizen, and from strictly a geo-political standpoint, I have admiration for the State called Israel. They are the most sane nation in the region IMO. But my eschatology does not hang on their existence.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Pre mil teaching says there is a future tribulation that occurs before the millennium. And it is hammering Israel during that time. Why? To move Israel to accept Him so that in the millennium they smarten up and no longer reject Him.

Any other reasons God hammers Israel in a future tribulation?

No one said all futurists are zionists.

Premillennialism has nothing to do with any supposed "future tribulation where God hammers Israel to get them to repent." You've confused dispensationalism with real eschatology.

Also, just an aside, God's method of getting people to repent has often included "hammering" them. Chastisement is a very Biblical concept. But even in futurism, the "great tribulation" is not God's anger against Israel, but Antichrist's persecution of saints and God's judgments against Antichrist.

(Are there no futurists here to defend their views? I shouldn't have to be pointing these things out! lol)

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Nor all who hold a pro-Israel position Zionists. As a private citizen, and from strictly a geo-political standpoint, I have admiration for the State called Israel. They are the most sane nation in the region IMO. But my eschatology does not hang on their existence.

You may not be an eschatological or theological Zionist, but you are politically pro-Zionist. The modern nation of Israel is the most sane nation in the region? Are you kidding me? They do and support everything Americans generally rail against as evil. Apartheid, supporting terrorist groups, destabilizing secular Arab governments, promoting the so called refugee crises, supporting forced settlement of millions of Muslims in Europe and North America while whole heartedly rejecting those same policies for their own, etc?

If anything, they are just as wacko and dangerous as any other Middle Eastern country.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Premillennialism has nothing to do with any supposed "future tribulation where God hammers Israel to get them to repent." You've confused dispensationalism with real eschatology.

Also, just an aside, God's method of getting people to repent has often included "hammering" them. Chastisement is a very Biblical concept. But even in futurism, the "great tribulation" is not God's anger against Israel, but Antichrist's persecution of saints and God's judgments against Antichrist.

(Are there no futurists here to defend their views? I shouldn't have to be pointing these things out! lol)

So, Israel is not punished at all in the trib in your view?

God does not hammer anyone to repentance. Chastisement is not hammering them like Israel will get it in that teaching.