Receiving The Holy Spirit & Speaking In Tongues

[KeptByTheWord]

Thanks to all of you who do not agree with my stance, and yet still show kindness, civility and grace in discussion.

I will try to respond to the comments made as time will allow.

[CalledOut238]

Originally Posted by n david

KBTW and I do not agree on this issue, but I agree with the others on here who are "calling out" CalledOut238 for his disparaging remarks against her.

While KBTW and I don't agree, she has not been disrespectful or mocking of anyone. I respect and value her posts. IMO, you completely misinterpreted what was meant by "hopping around." You took it to be a mockery of worship, and instead of clarifying it, leaped to condemn her for it.

She used the same term with me and I understood what she meant. The term was meant to go from scripture to scripture to scripture to scripture. I didn't agree with it, but it was not meant as mockery.

You're less than 50 posts (at this moment) into your conversation on AFF and most have been spent picking fights and condemning those who may not believe as you. I've had my share of fights with some on here, not fun. I regret it, as you may. And you likely won't last long, should you continue to ........ and condemn people who don't share your beliefs. AFF is a great place to debate (civilly) and share opinions and ideas and beliefs with others -- some of whom may not believe the same as you.

you completely misinterpreted what was meant by "hopping around."

You did not clarify the statement. Out of all the Chivalry posters rebuking me none have clarified. To me it was put in context to be disparaging.

So, your condemning me for condemning? Wow, there is a word that encompasses doing the same thing your accusing others of doing, but I will be nice.

Your right I have had to defend my statements from those attacking. I did draw the first stroke on this topic and offered an apology if correct clarification can be provided. But the rest of my confrontations have been from attacks from delusional Zionist Christians, who do not understand they have been duped. If you do not like the message then attack the messenger. Our Savior is not please with the church supporting Judaism and their Antichrist spirit. If people want to attack me; by labeling me an Anti-Semite or Nazi, then expect a confrontation.

Revelation 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

Time for the Apostolicism to come out from among Zionist Jesuit Christendom. How about discussing this instead of attacking me and I will not have to defend myself.

[CalledOut238]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

NDavid nailed it above... hopping around was an expression to mean using several different scriptures to make a point. Jumping to conclusions and throwing heavy accusations is not beneficial to a discussion.

Nowhere in John 3 did Jesus mention anything about speaking in tongues. One must "hop around" to try to make the “sound” concept work.

hopping around was an expression to mean using several different scriptures to make a point

Okay, I understand and apologize.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

You didn't answer my question. You have already stated that upon repentance and baptism, enough of the Spirit is present to cause a change in a persons life (fruit of the Spirit). You then went on to say that they then can receive the full measure. I understand that you believe tongues is not the absolute evidence.

My question was, what evidence have you personally witnessed other than tongues that the full measure is being poured out? If your answer is fruit of the Spirit, would that not suggest that they received the full measure when they repented and where baptized?

Your statement "as well as signs and wonders too" is what I am getting at. I wanted to know what signs you have personally witnessed other than tongues that the Spirit is being poured out upon someone? Are you now saying that there are no gifts of the Spirit necessary upon the baptism of the Holy Ghost?

Going back to Mark 16:16-18, Jesus plainly states that believing/baptism = salvation.

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

When Jesus says "these signs shall follow them that believe", we read that there are several different signs and wonders that can take place after believing, one of them being tongues.

I have witnessed people be healed by being prayed for by someone who does not speak in tongues. Do you want to know the most recent example of that?

Honestly, my example that I'm going to give you is hot off the press. A friend of ours is a pastor in a local church. He does not have the gift of speaking in tongues. When my eye was scratched, no one else was available to come and pray for me, so I called he and his wife. This man who I called, again, I reiterate, does not speak in tongues, but I know is filled with the spirit. He came to pray for me, laid hands on me with oil, as James 5:16 states, prayed in Jesus name and my eye was healed. The doctor told me my vision could take up to two weeks to restored. When I opened my eyes, my eye was healed, and I could see, and my headache that was happening because of the damage to my eye, was gone. How can this be? He doesn't have the gift of tongues, which usually is the evidence of the Holy Ghost, but yet, the power of the Holy Ghost was able to move in spite of the fact that he does not claim the gift of tongues.

I don't understand why he hasn't received the gift of tongues. We have talked about it, and I know he desires the gift of tongues, has asked for it. But hasn't received... yet he prayed in Jesus name for me, and I was healed.

I don't claim to have all the answers as to why the Lord has not given him the gift of tongues, but most notably, he has been given the gift of healing.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by CalledOut238

Okay, I understand and apologize.

Apology accepted, and I'm glad to see you found the quote button too.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by covey

There is a misunderstanding here. I know the Spirit was not given until the day of Pentecost. Therefore, I am not, nor would claim otherwise.

In John 3:8, Jesus says there will be (future event) a sound of the Spirit that we will hear EVERYTIME someone is born of the Spirit. That sound must come from the tongue through speech of the one born of the Spirit. The reason it must be through speech / tongue is the Greek word dictates it so. It cannot mean anything else. Acts 2:38 and elsewhere confirms the sound comes from speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance.

So, the importance of this argument is that Jesus told us exactly what would happen and how we would know when we were born of the Spirit.

This point might have been made by others, but i have never heard it from anyone else. i believe it is an excellent and conclusive argument of speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance happens to all that are born of the Spirit.

In both these two passages in question, the word sound was associated with wind. Indeed there was a noise from heaven, the sound of a rushing mighty wind, and Jesus mentioned the same thing in John 3:8 - that there would be a sound, like the wind. And it was a wind, from heaven!

But the sound was not the sound of tongues, or men's voices speaking. The sound was that of WIND.

John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Acts 2:6 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

So, if you are saying there is a sound that must be heard whenever someone receives the gift, should not the "wind" be present also before receiving the gift of the HG? Because Jesus mentioned the sound you would hear would be as the wind in John 3:8, and then we see that very wind heard in Acts 2:6.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by covey

I'm fairly new to the forum and I just saw your reply. The question you now raise, is what does it mean to believe? The weight of the Scriptures cited does not change what Jesus said, in John 3:8, would happen to those that believe.

The weight of the Scripture argument is valid, but not when something is said as clearly as Jesus said it in John 3:8. To argue to believe in Jesus Christ is to argue to believe and do what He said. Jesus clearly said to Nicodemus that EVERYONE born of the Spirit will hear the sound of the Spirit through speech / tongue.

See my post above regarding the wind. The sound concept having to be tongues does not hold up, because in both instances where we find the word "sound" (John 3:8, Acts 2:2), we see that indeed there was a sound, it was the sound of wind, and the wind was the sound that Jesus was speaking of would be the sign of the arrival of the HG being poured out... and the gift of tongues came next.

Originally Posted by covey

The question is not will we speak in tongues, but do we believe Jesus said we would.

I agree, if we believe, we should receive. If we ask, we should receive the gift of tongues. But what of those who ask, and have never received?

Originally Posted by covey

John 3:8 says the sound of being born of the Spirit comes by speech / tongues. The book of Acts confirms this is true.

No, I'm afraid it doesn't. The sound was associated with wind in both passages. Not voice.

Originally Posted by covey

To claim one believes Jesus Christ is the son of God, is only true if one believes and does what He says. [Luke 6:46] "Why do you call Me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?

I agree that action must accompany belief... and that action first involves baptism.

But what can we do action-wise to receive a gift? If it is a gift, then should not all we have to do is ask for it? If there is anything else that has to be done to receive it, then it cannot be a gift any longer.

[Amanah]

Wind, Spirit, Breath are interchangeable

Strong's Concordance

pneuma: wind, spirit
Original Word: πνεῦμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: pneuma
Phonetic Spelling: (pnyoo'-mah)
Short Definition: wind, breath, spirit
Definition: wind, breath, spirit.
HELPS Word-studies

4151 pneúma – properly, spirit (Spirit), wind, or breath. The most frequent meaning (translation) of 4151 (pneúma) in the NT is "spirit" ("Spirit"). Only the context however determines which sense(s) is meant.

[Any of the above renderings (spirit-Spirit, wind, breath) of 4151 (pneúma) is always theoretically possible (spirit, Spirit, wind, breath). But when the attributive adjective ("holy") is used, it always refers to the Holy Spirit. "Spirit" ("spirit") is by far the most common translation (application) of 4151 (pneúma).

The Hebrew counterpart (rûach) has the same range of meaning as 4151 (pneúma), i.e. it likewise can refer to spirit/Spirit, wind, or breath.]

[Amanah]

When the day of Pentecost came, the disciples were all together in one place. Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

[n david]

Originally Posted by CalledOut238

You did not clarify the statement. Out of all the Chivalry posters rebuking me none have clarified. To me it was put in context to be disparaging.

Please read my post again. I'll repost the relevant part since you missed where I did, in fact, clarify what was meant by "hopping around."

Originally Posted by n david

While KBTW and I don't agree, she has not been disrespectful or mocking of anyone. I respect and value her posts. IMO, you completely misinterpreted what was meant by "hopping around." You took it to be a mockery of worship, and instead of clarifying it, leaped to condemn her for it.

She used the same term with me and I understood what she meant. The term was meant to go from scripture to scripture to scripture to scripture. I didn't agree with it, but it was not meant as mockery.