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03-19-2016, 07:39 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1
What about my post needs "proof" or is libelous? I simply stated the obvious. Shock and the church had been told for many years emphatically that AM was retiring at 65 and Shock was taking it over. That is fact.
When AM was close to 65 years old rather than making that transition things were "put on hold" or "in a holding pattern" and it did not happen. That is a fact.
For those of us with relatives and friends associated with that church so are somewhat familiar with it we know that Gentry has become a preacher whose ministry has been progressing rapidly. Something of which I am sure his father is very proud of.
With that happening there is no leap in logic to believe that AM's change of heart about TS is associated with a desire to pass the church on to Gentry directly.
If you think my post is gossip or libelous you clearly have no idea what those terms mean.
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Whatever Anthony Mangun decided is between him and Terry Shock. You accusing Mangun of nepotism is uncalled for. Even if POA does make Gentry pastor one day, it's none of your concern.
Do you know for fact this is why TS is leaving or are you just spreading stuff?
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03-19-2016, 07:53 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
Quote:
Originally Posted by n david
Whatever Anthony Mangun decided is between him and Terry Shock. You accusing Mangun of nepotism is uncalled for. Even if POA does make Gentry pastor one day, it's none of your concern.
Do you know for fact this is why TS is leaving or are you just spreading stuff?
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I am not the one who said TS was leaving. I have heard that he is but that was some months ago and I don't have any new information. I was simply commenting on the FACT that AM did not go through with the transition to TS when he turned 65 as he had said he was going to do for many years.
For what it is worth I thought it was a mistake for AM to repeatedly emphasize very specifically what his succession plans were so many years in advance and then emphatically repeating them year after year.
As far as your notion that it is nobody's business and we should just all stick our heads in the sand and not have questions or wonder about Pentecostal successions I am sorry but those days of Preachers being some sort of kings whose actions cannot be evaluated or questioned are long gone.
You can have great respect for men of God and honor them, etc without burying your head in the sand and ignoring that you have a brain and common sense.
Your admonition for folks to just "move along now, there is nothing to see here" is absurd. Are there instances where a son inheriting a church is a good thing? I am sure that happens many times. Are there instances where a man's judgement and ability to hear the will of God is colored by his carnal desires for his son? Also yes. Sadly I think the latter happens more often than the former. No hard statistics just over 50 years of anecdotal observation. You can't get away with just telling people it is none of their business anymore what goes on. If pastors have public ministry's and want their voices to be heard and respected they should have no problem with public or private comments on their actions as long as there are not false accusations or misrepresentations.
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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03-19-2016, 08:48 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 952
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Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
Actually, there was an archived video of the service in which Pastors Shock and Mangun announce his resignation and the plans for moving forward. In that video (which has now been removed) Pastor Shock says that he made a decision to decline the role of Senior Pastor a few years ago. Incidentally, there are two young men, (one of which is Gentry) who will now be assistants and a third young man will be in a similar role. Bro. & Sis. TF Tenney are also coming on staff at POA for a season.
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03-19-2016, 09:12 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,840
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Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
Quote:
Originally Posted by bishoph
Actually, there was an archived video of the service in which Pastors Shock and Mangun announce his resignation and the plans for moving forward. In that video (which has now been removed) Pastor Shock says that he made a decision to decline the role of Senior Pastor a few years ago. Incidentally, there are two young men, (one of which is Gentry) who will now be assistants and a third young man will be in a similar role. Bro. & Sis. TF Tenney are also coming on staff at POA for a season.
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Thanks for the update!
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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03-19-2016, 09:56 PM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: WI
Posts: 5,482
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Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
How does one pass a church off to another man?
How does a church board and the saints in general not have a vote in who becomes the next pastor?
If it's because of by-laws, who in their right mind would want to attend a church with such by-laws?
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03-20-2016, 08:01 AM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,840
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Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
Quote:
Originally Posted by votivesoul
How does one pass a church off to another man?
How does a church board and the saints in general not have a vote in who becomes the next pastor?
If it's because of by-laws, who in their right mind would want to attend a church with such by-laws?
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If a church has a lot of confidence in their pastor and loves him or in some cases fears him they will respect his leadership enough to believe that whatever he says is the will of God is the will of God.Particularly in the culture of old time Pentecost and many Charismatic churches.
Likewise my observation has been that most or virtually all church boards are made up of "yes men" who for the most part just endorse whatever the pastor wants to do. Of course there are a few cases where the Pastor does something to anger some board members and then things can get contentious but I know of very few times of this happening.
I am not criticizing the board being folks who support the pastor. If I were a pastor I would want that also. However the board should be charged by the pastor with instructions to bring accountability to him, provide financial oversight with full transparent financial visibility to the board, etc.
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
Last edited by CC1; 03-21-2016 at 07:45 AM.
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03-21-2016, 06:40 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,242
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Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
Quote:
Originally Posted by votivesoul
How does one pass a church off to another man?
How does a church board and the saints in general not have a vote in who becomes the next pastor?
If it's because of by-laws, who in their right mind would want to attend a church with such by-laws?
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People who believe ministry is appointed not elected. Of which opinion I am.
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03-21-2016, 07:03 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 474
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Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1
If a church has a lot of confidence in their pastor and loves him or in some cases fears him they will respect his leadership enough to believe that whatever he says is the will of God is the will of God.Particularly in the culture of old time Pentecost and many Charismatic churches.
Likewise my observation has been that most or virtually all church boards are made up of "yes men" who for the most part just endorse whatever the pastor wants to do. Of course there are a few cases where the Pastor does something to anger some board members and then things can get contentious but I know of very few times of this happening.
I am not criticizing the board being folks who support the pastor. If I were a pastor I would want that also. However the board should be charged with the pastor with instructions to bring accountability to him, provide financial oversight with full transparent financial visibility to the board, etc.
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This is right on. There is currently one that is being passed to a son this year that I fear will not be best for him or the church. I hope it works out though. There will 3rd and 4th generational passing of churches. My personal opinion is that it is completely wrong and should only be a last resort. It goes along with the idolizing of men so prevalent in certain movements. It also goes hand in hand with how most oneness churches will not disclose the amount of tithes in an annual business meeting. That is another discussion but just another example of the control the pastor has.
Last edited by returnman; 03-21-2016 at 07:06 AM.
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03-21-2016, 07:55 AM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,840
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Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
Quote:
Originally Posted by returnman
This is right on. There is currently one that is being passed to a son this year that I fear will not be best for him or the church. I hope it works out though. There will 3rd and 4th generational passing of churches. My personal opinion is that it is completely wrong and should only be a last resort. It goes along with the idolizing of men so prevalent in certain movements. It also goes hand in hand with how most oneness churches will not disclose the amount of tithes in an annual business meeting. That is another discussion but just another example of the control the pastor has.
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Pastors are only human and it is a human instinct to protect what you have put blood sweat and tears into usually for many years. It is also a parents instinct to protect and promote their offspring. Sadly in some cases it is also a parents instincts to see their children through rose colored glasses and not the reality of what and who they are. All of the above can be a toxic mix in some cases.
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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03-21-2016, 09:12 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,270
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Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
I can think of one in texas that was passed on and its shocking to see the changes @ cornerstone ,not sure how you could anticipate it though !
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