Lee Stoneking Addresses UN

[Thinker]

Originally Posted by jfrog

I'm with you up to a point but:

I still can't understand what he could have been attempting by not originally being upfront about that picture not being of his service?

It was a over site he said he sees it was not wise
Why would he want to deceive when he had pictures of his august 2013 service????
he posted them in june 2014 on Instagram an there was no attack or even questions.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by shazeep

Well, i read about a guy who loved Christ, and changed his nation peacefully, unlike most Christians, who seem intent upon doing it at the point of a gun, and oblivious as to why their nation is in shreds. And he wasn't even a Christian. A telling quote came out of that,

"Christians are so unlike Christ."

So I'm not sure which point Mr Wilkerson was making, but as long as it's not the one where all Muslims, or Whomever--pick the group--are hopelessly deceived and going to hell, and he knows how to "help" them, then i say amen.

You know Shaz, you are the spittin' image of the monsters you rail against here.

[shazeep]

hey, i know i'm a hypocrite! but i would lie to you, if that was the only thing that might get you to drop the knife. I am open to your objections @ "as long as it's not the one where all Muslims, or Whomever--pick the group--are hopelessly deceived and going to hell, and he knows how to 'help' them, then i say amen."

Originally Posted by mfblume

I am not condoning any bad spirits of those who claim to be Christians. But it is a basic 101 issue that those who reject Christ's work of the cross as VITAL for salvation are LOST, period. That's not a bad attitude. That's just bible.

sorry, but that is condoning a death centered Christian; you imagine that you have a good definition of "Cross," but then refuse to pick it up? Basic 101 is that love conquers all; this is even before basic 101. 'Love your neighbor' is not qualified anywhere in Scripture, that i can find. Your little kids don't hate Muslims. If you don't have love, you are just making noise.

Now i guess i'll get to hear how you actually love Muslims, but you just consider them "lost." sorry, it just doesn't work that way. Such is the heart. You have deemed them, essentially, "inferior." You consider them a threat. They are your enemy, along with anyone else you deem inferior--homosexuals, Baptists, Trinnys--all need your help, your guiding hand, to find the light. I grew up with this, and felt that way myself. It leads to death.

"Humble" and "they are lost" cannot, ever, coexist in the same person. One must needs set their cross down to peer into a woman's "store window," and make observations about what she prolly has for sale, or make the observation that someone else is "lost." With all due respect.

The Bible is not a weapon, to beat others up with. Yes, it can be used that way, but don't doubt that this will define your heart, in the end. The best thing one might do with the Bible is to take all those verses that they have been applying to the "lost," and consider how they might apply to themselves...and vice-versa. Even for Muslims.

[n david]

Originally Posted by shazeep

Basic 101 is that love conquers all; this is even before basic 101.

Sounds like Rob Bell trash. Love wins!

Straight is the gate, narrow is the way that leads to life. Wide is the way that leads to destruction.

Like it or not, the only salvation is the New Birth experience. Regardless if you're muslim, Mormon, a Scientologist, Baptist, Catholic, Atheist, etc, you must be born again of water and Spirit.

You don't really love someone if you don't share the gospel and new birth message with them and allow them to live and die lost.

[shazeep]

So, Rob Bell is "trash" because he espouses "love wins." I grasp how his might seem like the wide way, when it is in fact the hardest. Note how your pov here seems like the narrow way, when it is in fact the easiest, wadr.

There is no condemnation in Christ means that if you condemn, you are not in Christ.

Like it or not, you have a fatal definition of "New Birth Experience." Others have defined your "born of spirit" for you, but

The kingdom will be taken from you and given to a nation that will produce the fruits of it. Notice that it is not the Bible that will be taken from you, here; that is just a witness, a pointer, to "the only way," that no amount of words can contain.

Your definitions may be technically perfect; God does not care. You are only convinced that you have been born of the spirit because some other guys with Doctorates assured you that you were. But there is no condemnation in the spirit, either.

You cannot "share the gospel" with the same mouth that you use to condemn them. It just does not work that way. In fact, having done this, you now cannot share the Gospel with your mouth at all! You will of course be viewed as a hypocrite. You cannot accept Christ with your mouth.

You don't really love someone if you consider them beneath you in any way. If you even feel in your heart that you are superior to them in some way, that is "lost," and it will be reflected in all of your interactions with them.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

oh, my, indeed. All of them, or just Muslims...or whom, exactly? Everyone who does not believe like you do, let's be honest. You can even prove it, from Scripture, right? I'll stand by my post, thanks, which never denied any work of the Cross.

If you think Muslims are not all lost, then there's no way you do not deny the work of the cross. Muslims do not have faith in the work of the cross for salvation. Those who are lost are those who do not follow the plan of salvation the bible teaches for salvation. It's not what I believe. It's what the bible teaches. Of course I believe what my faith is is what everyone must believe. I would not believe it if I did not think it was what the bible teaches. Who in their right mind would believe something they did not think the bible demands everyone to believe if they believed the bible relates the truth of how to be saved?

Everyone who does not obey the bible teaches on salvation is lost. That means every adherent to every faith that denies the work of the cross for salvation is lost. What kind of questions are these from you anyway?

So your stand on the cross makes no sense when you ask if all Muslims are lost or not.

[n david]

Originally Posted by shazeep

So, Rob Bell is "trash" because he espouses "love wins."

Shazy, where did I say HE was trash? I didn't. Don't try twisting my words. He's not trash. His love wins message is though.

Originally Posted by shazeep

There is no condemnation in Christ means that if you condemn, you are not in Christ.

smh I hope you're not serious, because that is NOT at all what that scripture means. Not at all.

"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Rom 8:1
This is speaking about believers who "are in Christ Jesus." Whereas before, when they were under the law, they were condemned to death; now, after being freed from the law of sin by receiving His Spirit, they are no longer under condemnation.

Originally Posted by shazeep

Like it or not, you have a fatal definition of "New Birth Experience." Others have defined your "born of spirit" for you, but

The kingdom will be taken from you and given to a nation that will produce the fruits of it.

Not sure what you're meaning to imply with the use of this scripture, but it appears you've again completely taken it out of context and twisted the meaning.

"Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof." Matt 21:42-43

The verse you posted is a result of what action? It's a result of the stone, the head cornerstone - ie Jesus, being rejected. It was Jesus telling the Chief Priests and elders of the Jews, who were challenging His authority (beginning at verse 23), since you have rejected Me, the kingdom of God will be taken from you (the Jews) and given to a nation bringing forth fruits (Gentiles).

Originally Posted by shazeep

Your definitions may be technically perfect; God does not care.

I would agree that God doesn't care about my definitions. But He does care about His Word and His Word gives only one plan of salvation.

[shazeep]

And yet Christ seemed very plain, @ Neither do I condemn you.

Originally Posted by mfblume

If you think Muslims are not all lost, then there's no way you do not deny the work of the cross. Muslims do not have faith in the work of the cross for salvation. Those who are lost are those who do not follow the plan of salvation the bible teaches for salvation. It's not what I believe. It's what the bible teaches. Of course I believe what my faith is is what everyone must believe. I would not believe it if I did not think it was what the bible teaches. Who in their right mind would believe something they did not think the bible demands everyone to believe if they believed the bible relates the truth of how to be saved?

Everyone who does not obey the bible teaches on salvation is lost. That means every adherent to every faith that denies the work of the cross for salvation is lost. What kind of questions are these from you anyway?

So your stand on the cross makes no sense when you ask if all Muslims are lost or not.

but i never asked if all Muslims were lost or not, Mr Blume; i am aware that humans are not qualified to answer this question. I was responding to the stated declaration that all Muslims were lost.
There is no condemnation in Christ. If you wanna talk about the Bible at me anymore, talk about this. Reconcile to me how you might be in Christ, and condemning of anyone else.

[n david]

Hate it when I quote a post, respond to it and look back to find the original post has been edited with additional comments added.

Originally Posted by shazeep

So, Rob Bell is "trash" because he espouses "love wins." I grasp how his might seem like the wide way, when it is in fact the hardest. Note how your pov here seems like the narrow way, when it is in fact the easiest, wadr.

Already addressed this. I never said HE is trash. His message of love wins is though.

Originally Posted by shazeep

There is no condemnation in Christ means that if you condemn, you are not in Christ.

Addressed this as well. That scripture does NOT mean what you claim it means. Awful interpretation of that verse.

Originally Posted by shazeep

Like it or not, you have a fatal definition of "New Birth Experience." Others have defined your "born of spirit" for you, but

The kingdom will be taken from you and given to a nation that will produce the fruits of it. Notice that it is not the Bible that will be taken from you, here; that is just a witness, a pointer, to "the only way," that no amount of words can contain.

Here you've added another line which makes no sense. I've addressed how you have again misinterpreted scripture.

Originally Posted by shazeep

Your definitions may be technically perfect; God does not care. You are only convinced that you have been born of the spirit because some other guys with Doctorates assured you that you were. But there is no condemnation in the spirit, either.

No. I'm convinced I've been born of the Spirit because the Bible says so! Good grief, Shazy. I don't need someone to tell me I've been born again. I read the Bible, understood the message Jesus gave to Nicodemus was the same given by the Apostles in Acts. Did Jesus and the Apostles lie? Is the Bible wrong?

Originally Posted by shazeep

You cannot "share the gospel" with the same mouth that you use to condemn them. It just does not work that way. In fact, having done this, you now cannot share the Gospel with your mouth at all! You will of course be viewed as a hypocrite. You cannot accept Christ with your mouth.

Show me where you found this in the Bible. Actually, don't, because you'll likely twist and butcher the meaning of a scripture. Your claims above aren't supported anywhere in scripture.

Originally Posted by shazeep

You don't really love someone if you consider them beneath you in any way. If you even feel in your heart that you are superior to them in some way, that is "lost," and it will be reflected in all of your interactions with them.

One needs humility, of course. That doesn't mean believers shouldn't tell them they're lost. Would a Dr. keep a cancer diagnosis from a patient? Absurd, right? Why should we keep the diagnosis of sin from the lost and allow them to die lost?

[n david]

Originally Posted by shazeep

There is no condemnation in Christ. If you wanna talk about the Bible at me anymore, talk about this. Reconcile to me how you might be in Christ, and condemning of anyone else.

You're misinterpreting that verse, Shazy.