Angels reproducing with humans possible? - Page 56

mfblume · #**551** 03-14-2015, 06:47 PM

bump

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Not true. As mentioned by Barnes, Eve said she got a SON INSTEAD OF ABEL FROM THE LORD. Hence, a SON FROM/OF God.

Gen 4:25 KJV And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.

Literal Hebrew reads as follows:

Gen 5:32 YLT And Noah is a son of five hundred years, and Noah begetteth Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

Refer to the emboldened and underscored words in my quotation of Barnes.

Scholars seem to disagree, and voice their reasoning as I see it as well.

True, but not in every case. That is simply not a conclusive thought.

Gene 4 ends with men calling on the name of the Lord once Seth's son Enos was born. THE MARGIN READS "Then began men to call themselves by the name of the Lord". In other words, SONS OF GOD. So, from the time of Enos, people who followed God called themselves sons of God while others were simply children of men. The majority of Jewish scholars interpret it this way.

I agree that is the case in some references, like that you mentioned by Neubchadnezzar. But the context of Seth and Cain, with Seth's line calling themselves people of God, added to the point in Gen 6:1 of men multiplying over the earth to see Seth converge upon Cain, with the absolute absence of any explanation in Genesis about a RACE OF FALLEN ANGELS changed to be able to procreate with human beings to set the explanation for their abrupt mention without reference in Genesis 6, cannot be reasoned to say it was fallen angels.

shazeep · #**552** 03-14-2015, 07:00 PM

then what is the point of all the special punishment for some of the fallen angels, one wonders. And why is the passage attempting to convey like 3 or 4 life-changing concepts so cryptically, do you think?

mfblume · #**553** 03-14-2015, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shazeep

then what is the point of all the special punishment for some of the fallen angels, one wonders. And why is the passage attempting to convey like 3 or 4 life-changing concepts so cryptically, do you think?

I think it's far simpler than that. It's a story of mankind and how men divided due to Cain's banishment. Like I said, just because there's questions does not mean a wild (just thinking out loud) and speculation like angels procreating with women is the answer. Not enough substance to go that way.

God does not answer things that are apart from his point, which is why we don't see answers to many things aside from the overall lesson of the need of salvation.

He leaves things "cryptic" that are worthless in his issue at hand.

mfblume · #**554** 03-14-2015, 10:07 PM

The key is finding the overall point in the first 6 chapters of Genesis, rather than searching for as "cool idea." lol Genesis 6 flows from the previous chapters and on into the following ones with a major overall point. How does YOUR (the readers) concept fit with that maxim?

I suggest the issue is sinners and people of God merging after the division when Cain was banished, and people of God compromising and leading to the flood. And the division continued after the flood with the people of Babel contrasted from Abram where they wanted to make themselves a name but God would make Abram a name. It's always been about the old and the new. People outside of God and those with God. Saying fallen angels having sex with another species called humans is thrown in the fray is a bit weird, to say the least.

Aquila · #**555** 03-14-2015, 11:05 PM

How do the most ancient Jewish sources interpret the issue?

Aquila · #**556** 03-14-2015, 11:10 PM

How was the term "Bene ha Elohim" used by the ancient Hebrews in Scripture and extra-biblical literature in ancient times?

Esaias · #**557** 03-15-2015, 05:01 AM

Outside the bible, the only ancient jewish sources are the apocrypha, essene writings/qumran documents, Philo, Josephus, and early gnostic writings.

And those sources usually give very strange teachings (Tobit comes to mind) including praying for the dead, purgatory, a variety of "secret holy knowledge unknown to the average Jew and kept hidden), gnostic speculations, solar/astrological based calendars, etc etc.

In other words, there are no extrabiblical sources which would shed light on the subject. They do however demonstrate current ideas in the milieu of 3-1st century BC and 1-2nd century AD judaism.

shazeep · #**558** 03-15-2015, 07:09 AM

i'm not sure even why that i am persuaded that Mike is right, lol. So, one would have to invalidate all of Enoch--I'm assuming you consider that "extrabiblical--" and come up with--or at least wonder at--where giants, nephilim originated. And moreso for us, perhaps, why they stopped originating.

mfblume · #**559** 03-15-2015, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shazeep

i'm not sure even why that i am persuaded that Mike is right, lol. So, one would have to invalidate all of Enoch--I'm assuming you consider that "extrabiblical--" and come up with--or at least wonder at--where giants, nephilim originated. And moreso for us, perhaps, why they stopped originating.

Again, some issues were simply not issues in the Lord's mind. I may be wrong in all of this, just so everyone knows my attitude. But, people ask things like the origin of Cain's wife, or when did dinosaurs come into play. But the purpose of the bible is not for that stuff. It's for salvation and coming to God. So, some things are left unexplained. They're not of any real point.

mfblume · #**560** 03-15-2015, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shazeep

i'm not sure even why that i am persuaded that Mike is right, lol. So, one would have to invalidate all of Enoch--I'm assuming you consider that "extrabiblical--" and come up with--or at least wonder at--where giants, nephilim originated. And moreso for us, perhaps, why they stopped originating.

Again, some issues were simply not issues in the Lord's mind. I may be wrong in all of this, just so everyone knows my attitude. But, people ask things like the origin of Cain's wife, or when did dinosaurs come into play. But the purpose of the bible is not for that stuff. It's for salvation and coming to God. So, some things are left unexplained. They're not of any real point.

Anyway, actually read the book of Enoch and see if you don't feel what I did about it. Bizarre! Totally out of synch with the manner and spirit of the bible.