Is there going to be a rapture????

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Lafon

I NEVER said that (the statement highlighted in red), nor even alluded to such a thing in any manner whatsoever!

In fact, I do NOT believe any soul, including the body it inhabits, will be cast (alive & fully awake) into the lake of fire UNTIL the end of the coming 1,000 reign of Jesus Christ upon the earth, after which the 2nd resurrection and final judgment transpires.

If such a thing were true, then it surely would represent an act of unrighteousness by God, for neither Satan nor any member of his demonic band have been cast there yet, and they were the first in rebellion against God!

Satan and every member of his demonic band, together with all of the wicked among mankind (both body and soul), will be cast into the lake of fire at the same time. That will be God's righteous justice for willful, sinful rebellion against Him.

Did not even the demons that our Lord encountered in the tombs they cried out, "saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?" (Matthew 8:29, KJV)

Both Peter and Jude gave witness to the veracity of this fact (see II Peter 2:4 & Jude 6, KJV).

Just as God's "righteousness" prohibits Him from casting Satan or the demons into the lake of fire "before the time" appointed, His fairness and equality of justice (righteousness) likewise prohibits Him from casting a wicked man there before the last day as well.

Have you never read (in Hebrews 6:1-2, KJV) wherein the writer enumerates the six elements which comprises "the principles of the doctrine of Christ" and includes ETERNAL JUDGMENT?

The word "judgment," as it is here used, could also be properly interpreted to imply/infer "suffering" which awaits all of the wicked dead who will be included as participants in the second resurrection at the end of the coming millennium, and their "suffering" is explicitly stated as ETERNAL, that is, everlasting, non-ending!

This, again, indicates that the invisible SOUL of mankind is immortal!

Ok so in your view the soul is not taken to Hades after death for pre judgment punishment? So where is the soul after death? If it is immortal where does it go at death?

When I said this was your view I meant it is the doctrine of people who teach immortal soul. Are you an exception?

Any comment on the OTHER THINGS I have been saying?

Peace and love.

[Lafon]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Ok so in your view the soul is not taken to Hades after death for pre judgment punishment? So where is the soul after death? If it is immortal where does it go at death?
When I said this was your view I meant it is the doctrine of people who teach immortal soul. Are you an exception?

Any comment on the OTHER THINGS I have been saying?

Peace and love.

First, in response to your question highlighted in red: The souls of mankind enters into a temporary suspended state of reality which the Bible calls the "sleep of death" (see Psalm 13:3, KJV) (see also Ecclesiastes 9:5-6, for therein its wording lends some rather indisputable evidence of the merits of this view)

In response to your 2nd question: Well, I must be, for that is something I have never believed or taught in my 75+ years of life. So, yes, I guess I am an exception.

Lastly, I would only recommend you do more study about the "righteousness" of God and all that it entails. Hopefully, should you elect to do so, your opinions about the immortality of the soul of mankind might be different.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Lafon

First, in response to your question highlighted in red: The souls of mankind enters into a temporary suspended state of reality which the Bible calls the "sleep of death" (see Psalm 13:3, KJV) (see also Ecclesiastes 9:5-6, for therein its wording lends some rather indisputable evidence of the merits of this view)

In response to your 2nd question: Well, I must be, for that is something I have never believed or taught in my 75+ years of life. So, yes, I guess I am an exception.

Lastly, I would only recommend you do more study about the "righteousness" of God and all that it entails. Hopefully, should you elect to do so, your opinions about the immortality of the soul of mankind might be different.

1. Good you are ahead of many in that understanding.

2. I am glad you are an exception. Soul sleep is the basis for the doctrine of annihilation to my way of thinking.

3. I have been intently studying the righteousness of God for 40 years. Since the scriptures fall on the side of the destruction of the wicked in Gehenna it confirms his righteousness.

He will give each person a punishment based on their works. So people that never even heard of him will not be burning in flames for trillions of years.....and that would just be the beginning!

No I believe God IS RIGHTEOUS. Each one will be punished according to what THEY personally deserve.

Peace and love.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Carl

Would a person enter into the kingdom maimed? No, they would be made whole being given a new glorified body at the resurrection. The point being made in these verses is that a person could cut off every extremity and be nothing but a stump and still have a wicked heart.

Since the immortal soul concept is the basis for everlasting torment then these verses can't be talking about it since the physical body is the subject. Are there actual worms in hell? Do they devour the wicked? A long held belief was that the devil and his demons would do the tormenting.

There are WORMS in us(bacteria)....The Lord is saying that the soul is VERY alive and cannot die, even using the concept of everlasting bacteria to make His point as an example of us not being able to escape eternity without everlasting judgement .