Assemblies of God 2013 Statistics Released

[LOVE JESUS]

They have the Holy Ghost. How are they receiving the Holy Ghost if they are lost? My My My!!! I got saved and filled with the Holy Ghost back in 1961 in the A/G church. I still remember my first pastor and his family and even remember the names of the ladies who pick me up so I could go to church- I was just a 15 year old girl who fell in love with Jesus. I could NEVER say they weren't in the family of God.

Originally Posted by AR Pastor

AOG people are not my brethren. The are not in God's family. They have refused His name.

[kclee4jc]

Originally Posted by AR Pastor

AOG people are not my brethren. The are not in God's family. They have refused His name.

I can't call them brethren as far as NT covenant, but I do call them friends. Someone was criticizing Bro Crawford Coon the other day for calling a trinitarian brother...his response was "if I missed him in Christ I caught him in Adam". Lol


But I do agree with you...it bothers me when Pentecostals make such a big deal out of trying to give an image that they are no different Than any other denomination and go around calling anyone and everyone brethren. I attended an AoG church for about 2 years before I came to truth. I am even close to the leadership of that church now (and our church is right beside theirs!). We have wonderful discussions about The Lord And the Holy Ghost. However I have made it very clear and they understand, that while I love and respect them and count them friends, I believe that one MUST be water baptized in Jesus Name to be saved. They know in feel and what our church teaches about holiness too and seem to respect it.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Your statement "winning the lost" I would like to address.

"Winning the lost" should be something more than just getting people "filled with the spirit". What happens to someone who has received the HG? What about the discliping? What about the percentage of people who receive the HG, and one year later are still living for the Lord? Where are those percentages?

You see, I really feel that discipling is an area that OP has missed out on. Everyone gets excited, hoops and hollers when X number of people receive the HG. But then... what about the followup? How many of those people are discipled, and taught how to be a disciple of Jesus? In my almost 40 years in the OP, I saw that as a huge problem. People would pray around the altar for hours to get someone "filled", but then drop them like a hotcake later when they began to struggle with how to live for the Lord, while moving on to get the next person "filled". I think it is a tragedy.

It's like taking a baby after being born, and struggling to get the baby to begin to drink milk, and then once he takes a drink of the milk, then it would be like taking the milk from the baby and saying okay, here is the meat. You better start eating this now, and shape up quick, or you're outta here. I know this sounds awful, but this is the attitude I saw many take to people who just received the HS, and then expected them immediately to mature on their own.

How many people who receive the HG in a Sunday morning service, are actually still living for the Lord 6 months to a year later? Some will be (if they have families or support )... but a large percentage won't be.

I think discipling is something that should be given much more attention than it is. I know many churches have followups, classes, and things like that, but it sounds better to talk about the "10 who received the HG this morning", then to say, "Folks, let's praise the Lord for the 1 soul who received the HG last year, who is still here, and living for the Lord."

I don't know what the actual retention rate is at FPC Palm Bay, but we do have visitation follow up, discipleship classes, and Home Friendship Groups where people can plug in and grow if they want to.

My personal experience was one of God dealing with me over time. I receive the HG at age nine at an AoG chuch that my mother and I were invited to visit. When I was a teenager, a street preacher showed me baptism in Jesus name and I was baptized in Jesus name at his local church, but didn't continue to attend. I told my sister about the HG and JN baptism but wasnt going to church anywhere myself. One day she called me on the phone to tell me about an awesome church she was visiting where people were receiving the HG and being baptized in JN, I happily attended there for about 20 years. I left when the church went through a major transition and I was a semi churchless wanderer for a period of time until God led me to FPC Palm to get plugged back in.

People may come in, get the HG, get baptized, you can try to establish them, but in the long run, you don't know where their journey is going to lead them. This does not mean that God has left them or is not continuing to work on them or that they won't eventually find their way home be it back to their original church or somewhere else. It is their choice.

[Rose]

Amanah, we used to love listening to your elder pastor's teaching on Sunday mornings!

[navygoat1998]

Originally Posted by Amanah

I don't know what the actual retention rate is at FPC Palm Bay, but we do have visitation follow up, discipleship classes, and Home Friendship Groups where people can plug in and grow if they want to.

My personal experience was one of God dealing with me over time. I receive the HG at age nine at an AoG chuch that my mother and I were invited to visit. When I was a teenager, a street preacher showed me baptism in Jesus name and I was baptized in Jesus name at his local church, but didn't continue to attend. I told my sister about the HG and JN baptism but wasnt going to church anywhere myself. One day she called me on the phone to tell me about an awesome church she was visiting where people were receiving the HG and being baptized in JN, I happily attended there for about 20 years. I left when the church went through a major transition and I was a semi churchless wanderer for a period of time until God led me to FPC Palm to get plugged back in.

People may come in, get the HG, get baptized, you can try to establish them, but in the long run, you don't know where their journey is going to lead them. This does not mean that God has left them or is not continuing to work on them or that they won't eventually find their way home be it back to their original church or somewhere else. It is their choice.

Years ago when we first planned on moving from California, FPC Palm was on our radar as a good place to plant, but moving was not in Gods plan at that time.

Fast-forward that picture a few years later when He opened the door and made away for us to move we had already left Oneness Pentecost and were in the AG.

When we moved God set us in a different area of the state and God was faithful to us in our walk. He has not failed us yet.

I had always heard good things about your church.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Let's face it - people like to find others like them to fellowship. That is why you see a church made up of one race, like Japanese, or Korean, or Spanish. They can relate to one another because they share similar backgrounds, genetics, and lifestyles. It may or may not have to do with the spiritual aspect of it, but more based on the fact that one Korean can relate to another Korean because of their culture. Their culture may mean more to them than they realize, and seeking fellowship with others who come from the same culture may be comforting to them.

There are others who don't feel the need to draw from their culture to find relationship.

I don't think it should be a mandated, or bad thing to have an all black church, or an all Korean church, or even an all American church!

For example, I have a Korean friend. She loves rice. Her children love rice. Her American husband tolerates it, but really doesn't like eating rice, and loves potatoes. She can't stand potatoes. She would rather eat rice than potatoes. I don't understand that. I love potatoes as a staple food for meals, and she loves rice. There is a cultural taste difference there that comes from her heritage, and one that comes from mine.

I shouldn't expect her to only eat potatoes, and she shouldn't expect me to eat only rice at meals we share together. We accept each other's differences. But my point is, that her culture and who she is, is different from mine. If she chose to go to a Korean-only church, I would understand that. If I choose to go to an All-American church, isn't that okay too?

See.... we try to fit everything and everybody into a nice tight little box, but it really doesn't work that way. Culture, race, background, family... all those things are important in relationships, and instead of judging one another, we should be accepting of our differences. If one culture group wants to worship together, let them. If they have no problem worshiping and fellow shipping with other cultures, than that is great too!

To sum it up... let's accept one another's differences, instead of trying to make them all fit into one tight little box.

AMEN, Good post........, LOL....why dont we start bussing folks to churches to mix up their demographics, like they do to kids in school here in CA to make sure the races are well mixed.(integration)....LOL

[Sean]

Originally Posted by kclee4jc

I can't call them brethren as far as NT covenant, but I do call them friends. Someone was criticizing Bro Crawford Coon the other day for calling a trinitarian brother...his response was "if I missed him in Christ I caught him in Adam". Lol


But I do agree with you...it bothers me when Pentecostals make such a big deal out of trying to give an image that they are no different Than any other denomination and go around calling anyone and everyone brethren. I attended an AoG church for about 2 years before I came to truth. I am even close to the leadership of that church now (and our church is right beside theirs!). We have wonderful discussions about The Lord And the Holy Ghost. However I have made it very clear and they understand, that while I love and respect them and count them friends, I believe that one MUST be water baptized in Jesus Name to be saved. They know in feel and what our church teaches about holiness too and seem to respect it.

Amen, I cannot call a person my brother in good conscience unless they are baptized in the name of Jesus. I dont care if they believe everything else different than me. Their baptism is the deal breaker to me.

[bkstokes]

Originally Posted by Sean

Amen, I cannot call a person my brother in good conscience unless they are baptized in the name of Jesus. I dont care if they believe everything else different than me. Their baptism is the deal breaker to me.

And your baptismal regeneration is based primarily upon John 3:3-5. In this passage the Lord Jesus never equates being born of water as baptism. He does make a comparison of natural birth (water) and new birth (spiritual). If your interpretation is correct, then you call Jesus a liar for he said that the gates of hell would not prevail against his church. What I mean is that for centuries no historian can find a group that baptized in Jesus name. Thus, if your interpretation is correct there did not exist the real church for centuries. I do believe that Jesus name is the correct form of baptism - However repeatedly the scriptures point to salvation at the point of belief in the Lord Jesus

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by kclee4jc

I can't call them brethren as far as NT covenant, but I do call them friends.

Here's what the Apostles said concerning those who had been baptized in the Holy Ghost.....

30 The God of our ancestors raised Jesus from the dead—whom you killed by hanging him on a cross.

31 God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might bring Israel to repentance and forgive their sins.

32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.” (Acts 5:30-32)

The baptism in the Holy Ghost is not just one of three "co-equal steps" in the new birth process. According to Peter, if God gives you the Holy Ghost, that is his own declaration that you have obeyed the gospel. While we as Apostolics are correct in many of our distinctives, we are wrong in assuming God demands perfection at conversion.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Here's what the Apostles said concerning those who had been baptized in the Holy Ghost.....




The baptism in the Holy Ghost is not just one of three "co-equal steps" in the new birth process. According to Peter, if God gives you the Holy Ghost, that is his own declaration that you have obeyed the gospel. While we as Apostolics are correct in many of our distinctives, we are wrong in assuming God demands perfection at conversion.

I do believe Jesus expects our baptism to be correct. I also believe HE KNOWS the hearts of all men. If indeed someone receives the Holy Spirit before water baptism God is showing he accepts their faith.

If he accepts their faith who am I not to? AND YET now that they have the Spirit he can guide them into that other "step".