Marty Ballestero doesn't LIKE facial hair on men!!

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Kevin Archer

Jesus stated in:

Matt. 5:17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

But, the "Tithing is of the Law" argument holds no doctrinal soundness at all
Tithing predated the law of Moses anyway..

Tithing has always been a part of the way that God's kingdom works:

1. The first illustration of it is found in the garden of Eden.

Everything was Adam's except for the fruit of the tree in the midst of the garden.
In essence, God told them they could have it all except what He said was His.
He said, "Don't eat it; don't touch it or you die." (Fairly important to God apparently)

Gen. 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

2. The second illustration is found in Gen 14 .

Abraham the "Father of the Faithful" tithed.

Gen. 14:19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:
Gen. 14:20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.
3. The third illustration that pre-dates the Law is when Jacob slept with His head on the rock.

Gen. 28:20 And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on,
Gen. 28:21 So that I come again to my father’s house in peace; then shall the LORD be my God:
Gen. 28:22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God’s house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.

Lastly, the prophet left us this.

Mal. 3:7 ¶ Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?
Mal. 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
Mal. 3:9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
Mal. 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
Mal. 3:11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts.
Mal. 3:12 And all nations shall call you blessed: for ye shall be a delightsome land, saith the LORD of hosts.

If a man is a thief, can he go to heaven?????

Jesus and the Apostle Paul reminded us of what Ex 22:15 commands of us:

Matt. 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

Rom. 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

That is all for now.

I brought scripture and proof through the scripture of Apostolic doctrine.
No opinions there but the Lord's

Are you under all the law concerning tithing?

What does garden of eden got to do with tithing?

[Truthseeker]

Do you have one scripture that shows because abraham tithed one time from someone else's possessions Christians should tithe from their income?

[Kevin Archer]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Are you under all the law concerning tithing?

What does garden of eden got to do with tithing?

Please re-read.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by AR Pastor

There is no way to use the fifth of Hollywood

I'm not big on Hollywood... I could do without it.

the god of sports

Sports is good exercise, teaches persistence, teamwork, and how to handle defeat to make a come back. Many healthy values can be taught through sports.

or jewelry in the right way.

When my wife was pregnant with our son, she would often go to work or go shopping, run errands etc. We didn't wear wedding bands. Everyone that encountered her thought she was knocked up and unmarried. It seemed like men wouldn't stop coming onto her or flirting with her, they thought she was a single "baby momma". Some women pitied her, until she explained that she was married. Many women didn't believe she was married. A couple very religious women even confronted her about not "sleeping around after this little lesson"! It was so disturbing, we went to the pawn shop and bought some cheap ring for her to wear... to avoid the appearance of evil.

Just as I have stated over and over. those who want the whiskers are the same ones that want these other thing.

None of these things are explicitly condemned in Scripture... with the exception of maybe Hollywood. I could give you Hollywood.

I for one am not going to sit and listen to man that has filled his mind with movies and the god of sports. If that is the kind of man you want reaching to you then so be it, but not me.

I feel ya. I don't like sports nuts either. And Hollywood isn't impressive, in fact, it's sickening. But sports in general, my son is going for a swim team, and loves soccer. Oh... let me guess... he's a "sinner".

Plus my world is not small. Have a lot of fellowship. And I have two grow children, both living for God.

Praise the Lord! You sound like a very blessed man.

[Reader]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

The Amish are into Hollywood, sports and jewelry?
Well that is news to me.

Excellent point.

I wonder why not one wants to meet me in the scriptures about this issue?

They admit there is no Bible to back their beliefs. They do not claim it to be a sin. It's a personal preference required if you want them to speak at your church, you to speak at theirs, church membership and fellowship with other believers, because it is indicative to them of a person who does bad things.

[Reader]

Please take tithing to another discussion.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Kevin Archer

Please re-read.

Ok, still don't see connection between tree in garden to tithing?

You believe we should follow all the law regarding tithing?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by AR Pastor

There is no way to use the fifth of Hollywood, the god of sports, or jewelry in the right way.

Just as I have stated over and over. those who want the whiskers are the same ones that want these other things.

AR Pastor... the problem with the men that are obsessed with Hollywood, excessive sports, etc... is the flesh. That sinful nature that they haven't conquered. A man who walks in the Spirit can discern what entertainment is wholesome. A man who walks in the Spirit will not allow sports to consume him. Nor will a person walking after the spirit be ostentatious and worldly in style.

The Spirit teaches, leads, and guides. The problem is your list. It causes one to merely focus on the list and not what it means to walk in the Spirit in all things.

All these "conservative" churches have their "standards". They all say it is for the sake of "holiness" and "pleasing God"... yet they all have different lists. Is God schizophrenic? One church condemns wedding bands... but another church allows them. One church says "no sports"... another has a softball team. One says no television... another says television isn't evil, be mindful of what you watch. One church says no internet... another allows it. One says only white shirts on men working the platform... another doesn't care. One says we have to go to church on Sunday... another says it's Saturday. One church hosts a pork roast... another professes that pork is an abomination. One church allows T-Shirts... another requires long sleeves.

... the example could go on and on and on. Why is this? God isn't the author of confusion!

The reason why they all disagree is that they are all merely the opinions, teachings, and traditions of men. When one seeks to live by them, they are lost on a troubled sea of subjective human opinion. A sea wherein one man's opinion is as good as another. Every Pharisee's list will be different. I've been to enough churches to know that and God has spoken to me about it.

The secret to living the Christian life isn't all these standards. It's spiritual union with Christ through the abiding presence of the Holy Spirit within our being. We are one spirit with Him. He lives His life through us. We are living extensions of Jesus Himself, branches of the True Vine. Jesus IS the standard. Not these silly little insignificant petty lists. We are to live incarnationally... we are to live as chosen vessels of the Spirit... sons and daughters of God. Spiritual union with God, through Christ, by the abiding presence of the Spirit. Oneness... Christ being in the Father, the Father being in Him... and Christ in us. To the point wherein it is no longer ourselves, but Christ who lives within us. The mind of Christ Himself living and manifesting in us... hearing His thoughts... speaking His words... doing His works. Feeling His very heart beating in our own chests. Allowing His gifts and ministrations to flow through us as He desires... our very shadows having nail scarred hands. In this we partake in the divine nature. This is holiness. Real holiness.

And the law we are called to obey is love. We are to love God with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength. And we are to demonstrate our love for God by loving others as ourselves. In doing this... we fulfill every possible law and standard one could ever possibly imagine... as it is written:

Matthew 22:37-40 (ESV)
37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”

Romans 13:8-10 (ESV)
8 Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Galatians 5:14 (ESV)
14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

You see... none of this is really about beards or tithes. It's about understanding the essence of true holiness (union with Christ, Him living His life through us, He manifesting Himself in us) and understanding the NT law of love as it relates to the Law of the OT.

If you were one spirit with the Lord... you'd know in the Spirit that beards are just beards. The issue is the sin nature. If you understood the Law itself as it relates to the NT law of love... you'd find your list of standards to be merely a basement level of righteousness... a cheap substitute and compromise for a single standard that is infinitely higher than any standard you have on that list, love. You'd finally realize and comprehend the difference between the Christian religion... and Christian spirituality.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Reader

Please take tithing to another discussion.

Hijacking is fun!

[Reader]

Not when it gives others an excuse to not respond to questions.....