Marty Ballestero doesn't LIKE facial hair on men!!

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Yet you would have no problem with the Armed Forces having a rule, McDonalds having a rule, a bank having a rule, any job place having a rule.
I have never said it was a sin for a man to have facial hair however I think it identifies them more with the world than the church. Today I see facial hair as being directional and from what I have witnessed through the years I am convinced. When a person chooses to standout from among the saints and Apostolic ministry something is going on besides liking facial hair it is an indicator.

I don't have a problem with churches having rules, although it's not my "favorite thing" when they push too far to the extra-biblical side. I do have a problem when they are preached as if they are sins when they aren't, as opposed to being presented for exactly what they are--pastoral preference.

I most definitely have a problem when Christian liberty is at stake and other men of God are disfellowshipped, excluded or talked badly about because they are, well, doing absolutely nothing wrong. Like I said, my Dad didn't care for facial hair on men, either. However, he didn't make it a point of fellowship with other ministers and he occasionally had men with beards on his platform. IMO, he was tolerant because it wasn't a scriptural issue; it was a personal preference. Mind you, he never stated that motive to me; that's my inference based on his actions and acceptance of ministers/Apostolic men with beards.

FTR, I agree somewhat with your last statement, but only as it applies to the local congregation. Pastoral preference shouldn't extend beyond the walls of the local congregation, IMO. Saints should be taught to be tolerant of other Christians who are living for God and don't measure up to their home church teachings--and they should be taught that by their local church leaders' example. What I see far too often is saints taking what their pastor teaches for the *home church* and applying that as a measuring stick to other Apostolics from other churches with different pastors.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I don't have a problem with churches having rules, although it's not my "favorite thing" when they push too far to the extra-biblical side. I do have a problem when they are preached as if they are sins when they aren't, as opposed to being presented for exactly what they are--pastoral preference.

I most definitely have a problem when Christian liberty is at stake and other men of God are disfellowshipped, excluded or talked badly about because they are, well, doing absolutely nothing wrong. Like I said, my Dad didn't care for facial hair on men, either. However, he didn't make it a point of fellowship with other ministers and he occasionally had men with beards on his platform. IMO, he was tolerant because it wasn't a scriptural issue; it was a personal preference. Mind you, he never stated that motive to me; that's my inference based on his actions and acceptance of ministers/Apostolic men with beards.

FTR, I agree somewhat with your last statement, but only as it applies to the local congregation. Pastoral preference shouldn't extend beyond the walls of the local congregation, IMO. Saints should be taught to be tolerant of other Christians who are living for God and don't measure up to their home church teachings--and they should be taught that by their local church leaders' example. What I see far too often is saints taking what their pastor teaches for the *home church* and applying that as a measuring stick to other Apostolics from other churches with different pastors.

I don't understand why a pastors individual preference should affect anyone other than the pastor. If the pastor doesn't like facial hair then let him not have any. How does his dislike of facial hair or anything else give him a right to make that a church rule regarding something extra biblical. I don't understand how such a thought process can ever be justified.

I understand if they are basing rules off bible passages, but to have extra rules outside those passages, that I do not understand.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I don't have a problem with churches having rules, although it's not my "favorite thing" when they push too far to the extra-biblical side. I do have a problem when they are preached as if they are sins when they aren't, as opposed to being presented for exactly what they are--pastoral preference.

I most definitely have a problem when Christian liberty is at stake and other men of God are disfellowshipped, excluded or talked badly about because they are, well, doing absolutely nothing wrong. Like I said, my Dad didn't care for facial hair on men, either. However, he didn't make it a point of fellowship with other ministers and he occasionally had men with beards on his platform. IMO, he was tolerant because it wasn't a scriptural issue; it was a personal preference. Mind you, he never stated that motive to me; that's my inference based on his actions and acceptance of ministers/Apostolic men with beards.

FTR, I agree somewhat with your last statement, but only as it applies to the local congregation. Pastoral preference shouldn't extend beyond the walls of the local congregation, IMO. Saints should be taught to be tolerant of other Christians who are living for God and don't measure up to their home church teachings--and they should be taught that by their local church leaders' example. What I see far too often is saints taking what their pastor teaches for the *home church* and applying that as a measuring stick to other Apostolics from other churches with different pastors.

Here is how it works here and those I fellowship. If a guy wants facial hair I have many Pentecostal neighbors that would be glad to have them. They can go there. Very simple. If a preacher wants to fellowship guys who promote facial hair fine with me but I am not going to. Just not having it here if a man claims to be a member. By the way all these years it has never been a problem I can't remember losing one man over this issue. I have been honest never told them it was a sin but a decision I have made and I am not going to change. Never mistreated anyone with facial hair and not going to start.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Yet you would have no problem with the Armed Forces having a rule, McDonalds having a rule, a bank having a rule, any job place having a rule.
I have never said it was a sin for a man to have facial hair however I think it identifies them more with the world than the church. Today I see facial hair as being directional and from what I have witnessed through the years I am convinced. When a person chooses to standout from among the saints and Apostolic ministry something is going on besides liking facial hair it is an indicator.

God's church is not your army, your business or bank. Making that comparison is seriously flawed.

Most people I know or know of "in the world" have clean shaved faces. Most politicians. Most police. Most brokers and bankers. Most professional sports figures.

[barry72]

Personal preferences are for personal use. As many have stated, we treat men with facial hair like their soul is in danger. I would argue that the Pastor who enforces such rule is in more danger than the one with facial hair. After all, it's God's church. Who are you to tell me I can't minster in God's church because I have facial hair? Most men making a big deal over saints with facial hair have internal issues they are struggling with themselves. Yes, pastors struggle with sin too. Quit creating stumbling blocks for your saints, and focus on removing the plank out of your own eye.

Please pray for my rebellious spirit.

[kclee4jc]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Here is how it works here and those I fellowship. If a guy wants facial hair I have many Pentecostal neighbors that would be glad to have them. They can go there. Very simple. If a preacher wants to fellowship guys who promote facial hair fine with me but I am not going to. Just not having it here if a man claims to be a member. By the way all these years it has never been a problem I can't remember losing one man over this issue. I have been honest never told them it was a sin but a decision I have made and I am not going to change. Never mistreated anyone with facial hair and not going to start.

This is balance IMO.

A standard against facial hair is a good tradition. Despite what some may say, there is nothing wrong with having good traditions.

[AR Pastor]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Here is how it works here and those I fellowship. If a guy wants facial hair I have many Pentecostal neighbors that would be glad to have them. They can go there. Very simple. If a preacher wants to fellowship guys who promote facial hair fine with me but I am not going to. Just not having it here if a man claims to be a member. By the way all these years it has never been a problem I can't remember losing one man over this issue. I have been honest never told them it was a sin but a decision I have made and I am not going to change. Never mistreated anyone with facial hair and not going to start.

I feel the same way.

As you said I have never lost a man over this issue. Really never even preached about it. When they come in and get the Holy Ghost the facial hair comes off.

[kclee4jc]

No one in our church has facial hair. I've seen many come in and shave. Never heard it preached on at our church. Maybe mentioned in passing a few times.

What is strange to me is facial hair is hardly ever mentioned and there has bee no issue with it. Yet my pastor spends a great deal preaching against television and sports and many refuse to give it up. I guess it's easier to shave than actually get cut off ties to the world. Go figure.

If people are going to backslide...seems like facial hair will be the least of the issues.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by kclee4jc

No one in our church has facial hair. I've seen many come in and shave. Never heard it preached on at our church. Maybe mentioned in passing a few times.

I love how people act like its some kind of holy ghost conviction that causes people to shave beards and ladies to start wearing only skirts.

It's not a holy ghost conviction. It's called wanting to fit in.

[navygoat1998]

Originally Posted by jfrog

I love how people act like its some kind of holy ghost conviction that causes people to shave beards and ladies to start wearing only skirts.

It's not a holy ghost conviction. It's called wanting to fit in.