End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

[RJR]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Not according to the NET Bible, it doesn't.

From the NET notes on 1 Tim. 2:12... https://net.bible.org/#!bible/1+Timothy+2

1 Tim. 2:12 But I do not allow. Although the Greek conjunction δέ (de) can have a simple connective force (“and”), it is best to take it as contrastive here: Verse 11 gives a positive statement (that is to say, that a woman should learn). This was a radical and liberating departure from the Jewish view that women were not to learn the law

exercise authority 20 over a man: According to BDAG 150 s.v. αὐθεντέω this Greek verb means “to assume a stance of independent authority, give orders to, dictate to” (cf. JB “tell a man what to do”).

Grk “but to be in quietness.” The phrase ἐν ἡσυχίᾳ (en Jhsucia) is used in Greek literature either of absolute silence or of a quiet demeanor.

You guys are just picking and choosing a translation that says what you want it to say. To your own detriment, the NET Bible had RDP's hero, Daniel Wallace, working with the translation. Why doesn't it say what RDP wants it to say?

It says, Women can learn, not "women can't preach".... !

Hmm....

the word "teach" according to the Net:
διδασκο(1321)
Pronunciation: did-as'-ko
Origin: a prolonged (causative) form of a primary verb dao (to learn)
Reference: TDNT - 2:135,161
Part of Speech: v
In Greek: διδασκε 2, διδασκει 3, διδασκειν 13, διδασκεις 7, διδασκη 1, διδασκοντες 9, διδασκοντι 1, διδασκοντος 1, διδασκω 1, διδασκων 23, διδαξαι 3, διδαξει 2, διδαξη 2, διδαξον 1, διδαξωσιν 1, εδιδαχθην 1, εδιδαχθησαν 1, εδιδαχθητε 3, εδιδασκεν 14, εδιδασκον 2, εδιδαξα 1, εδιδαξαν 1, εδιδαξας 1, εδιδαξεν 3
In NET: teaching 20, taught 13, teach 12, to teach 10, began to teach 6, was teaching 4, teaches 3, will teach 2, while teaching 2, he taught 2, while was teaching 2, by teaching 2, he began to teach 1, do you teach 1, he was teaching 1, I teach 1, Teach 1, While was teaching 1, Does teach 1, began teaching 1, you teach 1, were taught 1, were teaching 1, who teaches 1, will be need to teach 1, they were instructed 1, you taught 1, it has taught 1, learn 1, you were taught 1, instructed 1
Count: 97
Definition: 1) to teach 1a) to hold discourse with others in order to instruct them, deliver didactic discourses 1b) to be a teacher 1c) to discharge the office of a teacher, conduct one's self as a teacher 2) to teach one 2a) to impart instruction 2b) instill doctrine into one 2c) the thing taught or enjoined 2d) to explain or expound a thing 2f) to teach one something
a prolonged (causative) form of a primary verb dao (to learn); to teach (in the same broad application):-teach.


NOPE, NOT THERE.... This scripture does NOT say that a woman cannot preach!

Pretty good description in bolded of what a woman is not suppose to do.

Not that I want Biblical facts to get in your way, but silence does not mean absolute silence, the same word silence is used in 1 Cor 14:28 and said the man who was to be in silence could SPEAK, it only modified how he could speak.

[RJR]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Strange it did not say everyone has a hymn but only men can teach....the Bible says everyone....Sister Mary Williams was probably one of the best teachers in Pentecost in her day...we studied from her books at school....

1Co 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
1Co 14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
1Co 14:28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
1Co 14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
1Co 14:30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
1Co 14:31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
1Co 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
1Co 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
1Co 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
1Co 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

I am sorry verses 34-35 does exactly what you say it does not, of course 1 Tim 2:12 further amplifies Paul's position.

Did you notice the red above? Where it is possible for one to be in silence and yet be permitted to speak? However, when it came to a woman speaking (preaching) she was not permitted, however since it is possible to be in silence and yet speak, she could prophesy, have a psalm, have a revelation, she could not however teach a man, 1 Tim.2:12

[rdp]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Not according to the NET Bible, it doesn't.

From the NET notes on 1 Tim. 2:12... https://net.bible.org/#!bible/1+Timothy+2

1 Tim. 2:12 But I do not allow. Although the Greek conjunction δέ (de) can have a simple connective force (“and”), it is best to take it as contrastive here: Verse 11 gives a positive statement (that is to say, that a woman should learn). This was a radical and liberating departure from the Jewish view that women were not to learn the law

exercise authority 20 over a man: According to BDAG 150 s.v. αὐθεντέω this Greek verb means “to assume a stance of independent authority, give orders to, dictate to” (cf. JB “tell a man what to do”).

Grk “but to be in quietness.” The phrase ἐν ἡσυχίᾳ (en Jhsucia) is used in Greek literature either of absolute silence or of a quiet demeanor.

You guys are just picking and choosing a translation that says what you want it to say. To your own detriment, the NET Bible had RDP's hero, Daniel Wallace, working with the translation. Why doesn't it say what RDP wants it to say?

It says, Women can learn, not "women can't preach".... !

Hmm....

the word "teach" according to the Net:
διδασκο(1321)
Pronunciation: did-as'-ko
Origin: a prolonged (causative) form of a primary verb dao (to learn)
Reference: TDNT - 2:135,161
Part of Speech: v
In Greek: διδασκε 2, διδασκει 3, διδασκειν 13, διδασκεις 7, διδασκη 1, διδασκοντες 9, διδασκοντι 1, διδασκοντος 1, διδασκω 1, διδασκων 23, διδαξαι 3, διδαξει 2, διδαξη 2, διδαξον 1, διδαξωσιν 1, εδιδαχθην 1, εδιδαχθησαν 1, εδιδαχθητε 3, εδιδασκεν 14, εδιδασκον 2, εδιδαξα 1, εδιδαξαν 1, εδιδαξας 1, εδιδαξεν 3
In NET: teaching 20, taught 13, teach 12, to teach 10, began to teach 6, was teaching 4, teaches 3, will teach 2, while teaching 2, he taught 2, while was teaching 2, by teaching 2, he began to teach 1, do you teach 1, he was teaching 1, I teach 1, Teach 1, While was teaching 1, Does teach 1, began teaching 1, you teach 1, were taught 1, were teaching 1, who teaches 1, will be need to teach 1, they were instructed 1, you taught 1, it has taught 1, learn 1, you were taught 1, instructed 1
Count: 97
Definition: 1) to teach 1a) to hold discourse with others in order to instruct them, deliver didactic discourses 1b) to be a teacher 1c) to discharge the office of a teacher, conduct one's self as a teacher 2) to teach one 2a) to impart instruction 2b) instill doctrine into one 2c) the thing taught or enjoined 2d) to explain or expound a thing 2f) to teach one something
a prolonged (causative) form of a primary verb dao (to learn); to teach (in the same broad application):-teach.


NOPE, NOT THERE.... This scripture does NOT say that a woman cannot preach!

LOL - Typical willful ignorance. Ummm, thank you for doing the work for us! I will more closely exegete this for you later tonight &, once again, we'll see that you just out your foot in your mouth....AGAIN ! Y'all do it EVERYTIME you appeal to the Greek text....As you just did AGAIN!


All I will say for now is it is YOU who is being "selective" in what you appeal to - & even then there's absolutely nothing that detracts from what this text clearly states....Do YOU accept what Wallace stated in the email to me? Watch that "selectivity" now !




Yes, these texts clearly forbid women from "preaching-teaching" men in the church - & even worse, the data you just quoted facilitates that understanding. Back a little later to embarrass you in your textual error & appeals - once AGAIN !

[rdp]

Originally Posted by RJR

Pardon me, I didn't know you were Sasha.

Yes, 1 Cor 14:34-35 and 1 Tim. 2:12 says exactly what you say it does not say, it expressly forbids a woman to preach.

[Esther]

Originally Posted by RJR

No need for 1 Cor 11 instructions on hair, because Sis Avear says no male or female in Christ. Sis Alvear, we will not be surprised to see you wearing that which pertains to a man, since you say no male or female in Christ. Put your endorsement on same sex marriages, since in Christ there is no males or females. No head of the woman, since there is no males or females in Christ.

Obviously, the reference is the message is the same to females-males, young-old, jews-gentiles, free-slave.

Since 1 Tim is talking about the home. A woman must learn in silence in the home. She cannot ask her husband in the home, unless in full agreement with him, because she is to learn in silence with ALL SUBJECTION. In spite of the fact 1 Cor 14 tells her to ask her husband at home. Since according to Sis Alvear, 1 Tim 2 is about the home, dealing with husband and wife, I guess only single women can preach because a married women cannot exercise authority over the man.

I'm amazed you don't understand the scripture she is citing. But I suspect you are pretending to be ignorant of the scripture. Your goal here seems to be to harass Sis Alvear. Your true self in being revealed and not a glowing report. You should disagree with respect, but I don't see any coming from you.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by rdp

LOL - Typical willful ignorance. Ummm, thank you for doing the work for us! I will more closely exegete this for you later tonight &, once again, we'll see that you just out your foot in your mouth....AGAIN ! Y'all do it EVERYTIME you appeal to the Greek text....As you just did AGAIN!


All I will say for now is it is YOU who is being "selective" in what you appeal to - & even then there's absolutely nothing that detracts from what this text clearly states....Do YOU accept what Wallace stated in the email to me? Watch that "selectivity" now !




Yes, these texts clearly forbid women from "preaching-teaching" men in the church - & even worse, the data you just quoted facilitates that understanding. Back a little later to embarrass you in your textual error & appeals - once AGAIN !

LOL back at ya... shall I expect more of your copy/paste jobs.... no matter how you dig, there is no scripture that prohibits a woman from preaching.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

The verses in Corinthians aren't even about women preaching. Paul goes on to say in Galations that there is no male or female in Christ--that we are all one. Cultural elements must be brought into the picture when considering these scriptures. The verse in Tim. Is talking about the home....

Sigh...No Sis. Alvear - I Timothy 2:11-3:15 is NOT talking about the "home" & we have utterly & thoroughly demonstrated this from the exegesis of the text over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over - & OVER.



You simply refuse to accept the biblical data as it stands because it militates against your wants.....Honestly, it is sad to watch & has caused myself & others to lose respect .

[Esther]

Originally Posted by Pliny

Did you not read the quote that was posted?

Apparently NOT. Otherwise you would not be asking for documentation as it was already given:

She is attempting, poorly, to equate the statement that the "church went everywhere preaching" as though this somehow "proves" women preachers in the early church. Therefore, if this is the evidence then based upon THAT logic ALL members went preaching including infants, toddlers, adolescents etc.

Obviously your logic is lacking if you think that was her intent.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Esther

I'm amazed you don't understand the scripture she is citing. But I suspect you are pretending to be ignorant of the scripture. Your goal here seems to be to harass Sis Alvear. Your true self in being revealed and not a glowing report. You should disagree with respect, but I don't see any coming from you.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

1 Cor. 14:34 "speak" according to the NET Bible:

λαλεο(2980)
Pronunciation: lal-eh'-o
Origin: a prolonged form of an otherwise obsolete verb
Reference: TDNT - 4:69,505
Part of Speech: v
In Greek: ελαλει 20, ελαλησα 8, ελαλησαμεν 1, ελαλησαν 11, ελαλησατε 1, ελαλησεν 30, ελαληθη 2, ελαλουμεν 1, ελαλουν 6, λαλει 20, λαλειν 21, λαλεισθαι 1, λαλειτε 4, λαλειτω 1, λαλειτωσαν 1, λαλεις 4, λαλει 1, λαλη 1, λαλησαι 21, λαλησαντες 2, λαλησας 2, λαλησει 4, λαληση 2, λαλησητε 3, λαλησομεν 1, λαλησουσιν 2, λαλησω 5, λαληθεισης 1, λαληθεις 1, λαληθεντος 1, λαληθεντων 1, λαληθηναι 2, λαληθησεται 4, λαληθησομενων 1, λαλουμεν 10, λαλουμενη 1, λαλουμενοις 3, λαλουμενον 2, λαλουν 2, λαλουντα 1, λαλουντας 1, λαλουντες 7, λαλουντι 2, λαλουντος 18, λαλουντων 5, λαλουσαι 1, λαλουσαν 1, λαλουσης 1, λαλουσιν 2, λαλω 19, λαλων 16, λαλωσιν 1, λελαληκα 11, λελαληκεν 2, λελαλημενοις 1, λελαληται 1, ελαλησεν 1
In NET: to speak 27, spoke 26, speaking 24, speaks 10, speak 9, said 9, he spoke 7, I have told 6, I speak 6, we speak 5, had spoken 5, began to speak 5, have spoken 5, was speaking 4, While was speaking 4, will be told 4, spoken 4, to say 3, was saying 3, I will speak 3, I have said 3, I have spoken 3, say 3, he speaks 2, he was speaking 2, communicate 2, speaker 2, does speak 2, I spoke 2, they speak 2, I am speaking 2, has spoken 2, while was speaking 2, has told 2, I am saying 2, we are speaking 2, was said 2, is speaking 2, had been told 2, will speak 2, he is speaking 2, are you speaking 1, had said 1, as was speaking 1, do they speak 1, from speaking 1, had finished saying 1, from uttering 1, declared 1, communicated 1, Speak 1, I do say 1, I do speak 1, I said 1, I say 1, I am talking 1, He will speak 1, Am I saying 1, He did speak 1, He told 1, He was speaking 1, I should speak 1, I talked 1, While was still speaking 1, While were saying 1, While were speaking 1, am telling 1, While was saying 1, When said 1, Let him speak 1, had told 1, We are speaking 1, are proclaiming 1, he promised 1, that speaks 1, they began to speak 1, they said 1, they spoke 1, teaching 1, talking 1, would have spoken 1, speeches 1, would be spoken 1, spoke out 1, they will speak 1, to declare 1, we said 1, we will speak 1, when had spoken 1, who speaks 1, we may proclaim 1, we do speak 1, told 1, was spoken 1, we declare 1, you are speaking 1, you have whispered 1, you speak 1, he tells 1, he told 1, he was saying 1, he says 1, he preached 1, he could speak 1, he did speak 1, he is talking 1, he made 1, he will speak 1, insisted 1, you should say 1, saying 1, should speak 1, sounded 1, proclaim 1, lies 1, is being said 1, it could speak 1, it says 1, have been told 1
Count: 296
Definition: 1) to utter a voice or emit a sound 2) to speak 2a) to use the tongue or the faculty of speech 2b) to utter articulate sounds 3) to talk 4) to utter, tell 5) to use words in order to declare one's mind and disclose one's thoughts 5a) to speak
a prolonged form of an otherwise obsolete verb; to talk, i.e. utter words:-preach, say, speak (after), talk, tell, utter. Compare 3004. see GREEK for 3004

Only 1 time is this word translated as "preach". Thus your second mantra scripture against a woman preaching is FALSE.

LOL - Watch that "selectivity" now! You appeal to the KJV elsewhere - now drop it like a hot-potato here !



Combining the KJV & NASB (I'll check the other translations later) this equals 7 different places where the verb is translated "preach" - Not to even re-mention Strong's, the professors, etc. Yes, the verb equally means "PREACH" - Just like we 'be been telling you all along - & you just gave us another witness !






Good work !