End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sasha

The men continue to pick and choose. LOL!

Nice try - LOL - the men know how to read reams & reams & reams of textual facts, word definitions, exegesis, syntax (do you even know what that is??), context & plain Bible instructions (all of which y'all stubbornly defy) - oughta' give it a try someday !

[rdp]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Just what I expected, more of your condescending remarks, without addressing the issue raised in my post, that being that the word silence that was used was one that meant to still the crowd, or hold peace, or be silent. It didn't mean a woman could never speak, but it was addressing a specific situation, which would account for the fact that women can obviously speak in a church setting.


LOL - Yea', I've been "dodging" you for over 70 pages now . Your earth-shattering, self-fabricated quandry has been directly "addressed" directly to you over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over - you're merely feigning the high ground of victory in order to save face (& looking foolish in the meantime) - nice try though !


I have already outlined that a woman should never outstep the boundaries of headship set up by God, paralleled by the marriage relationship, and the Christ/church relationship. But the "silence" verses definitely do not mean a woman can never speak out loud in a church service, but that there is a time for speaking, and a time for silence. Paul was addressing the operation of the gifts of the spirit in 1 Cor. 14, and he was explaining that there is a time for all to be silent, so as not to have confusion and disorder.


Those passages teach women to keep their respectful place in the headship. Those passages do not silence women from being used in the gifts of the spirit, in prophesy, or in preaching the gospel. I have already said that the bishop/deacon/elder qualifications pertain to church government, and to parallel the headship of Christ/church, husband/wife, it would not seem fitting that a women would be in a leadership/church government position.

But being used to preach the gospel wherever there are hungry souls, keeping a humble, submissive attitude to Christ, and their husbands, and never seeking to usurp authority, then by all means, we see women being used mightily in the church all throughout the NT.


Wrong, the Bible specifically & clearly forbids women from "preaching-teaching" to men in the church - period. Let God be true....



Here is the Strong's definition of "teach"

didaskó: to teach Definition: I teach, direct, admonish.
1321 didáskō (from daō, "learn") – to teach (literally, "cause to learn"); instruct, impart knowledge (disseminate information).

In the NT, 1321 /didáskō ("teach") nearly always refers to teaching the Scriptures (the written Word of God). The key role of teaching Scripture is shown by its great frequency in the NT, and the variety of word-forms (cognates).

You don't even know how to use your own resources! The embolden quote above is NOT extracted from "Strong's" - but rather from "Helps Ministries, Inc. For complete text and additional resources visit: HelpsBible.com (see here: http://biblehub.com/greek/1321.htm).


You make an even worse lexical mistake below - no wonder you believe in "women-preachers" - you don't know what you're doing!


So yes, it does refer to one expounding on, and teaching the scriptures. You have that point correct.


Yes I do - But you don't !



However, below is the lexicon definition of the setting of the verse with the particular meaning attached to it:

d. with the accusative of person and of thing, to teach one something (Winers Grammar, 226f (212); Buttmann, 149 (130)): (ἐκεῖνος ὑμᾶς διδάξει πάντα, John 14:26); τοῦ διδάσκειν ὑμᾶς τινα τά στοιχεῖα, Hebrews 5:12 (where R G T Tr and others read — not so well — τινα; (but cf. Buttmann, 260 (224) note, 268 (230) note)); ἑτέρους διδάξαι, namely, αὐτά, 2 Timothy 2:2; hence, passive διδαχθῆναι τί (Buttmann, 188 (163); Winer's Grammar, 229 (215)): Galatians 1:12 (ἐδιδάχθην, namely, αὐτό), 2 Thessalonians 2:15.

In the setting of I Tim. 2:12, let's inject that meaning into the scripture:



Why on earth would we "inject that meaning into the Scripture" when the very lexical source you (mis)quoted does not place I Tim. 2.12 under that "meaning" ?? Did you not see the prerequisite of "with the accusative (case) of person and of thing" - then the reference to "2 Timothy 2.2"??


Problem is, the Greek verb translated "to teach" is not describing the action (or in this case forbidden the action) of anyone or anything in the "accusative case," but rather in the "dative case" (i.e., "a woman") - which is the very reason Dr. Thayer does not translate the passage under the category you're feigning! The verb "to teach" appears in the present-tense; infinitive-mood; active-voice - with absolutely NO reference to an "accusative case" ?



Here is the actual (& real) lexical data regarding I Tim. 2.12 (taken from your own source):


1. absolutely,

a. to hold discourse with others in order to instruct them, deliver didactic discourses: Matthew 4:23; Matthew 21:23; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:6; Mark 14:49; Luke 4:15; Luke 5:17; Luke 6:6; John 6:59; John 7:14; John 18:20, and often in the Gospels; 1 Timothy 2:12.



Here is the actual Greek text, along with exact morphology: http://biblehub.com/text/1_timothy/2-12.htm



I can only hope you've made these lexical mistakes out of ignorance (which happens sometimes) & not willfully. Regardless, you've once again well demonstrated that you do not understand the lexical data (not that this is mandatory) & are merely throwing out your beliefs. - which stand in stark contrast to God's Word.


But I suffer not a woman to teach one something, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in quietness, stillness, silence.



Sorry - doesn't work for the syntactical considerations provided above & by your own resource!


The text lexically transliterates as "I do not allow a woman to teach 'from the Scriptures'...". How do we know? Because this particular Greek verb virtually always mean this in the NT:


In the NT, 1321 /didáskō ("teach") nearly always refers to teaching the Scriptures (the written Word of God). The key role of teaching Scripture is shown by its great frequency in the NT, and the variety of word-forms (cognates). This includes three noun-forms, two adjectival forms, and one verb, totaling about 220 occurrences in the NT.



Paul did make it clear that the woman should not be teaching/instructing, or otherwise usurping authority over the man, most likely husband.


Oh my goodness - How much syntax, grammar, exegesis, context & direct quotes from foremost translators-leading Greek grammarians on the entire planet do we have to reference to you? No, I Tim. 2.11-3.15 is not "most likely" talking about wives not instructing their husbands .


Paul explicitly stated that he was writing his letter to Timothy to set in order the affairs of the "church" - not "home-order" (guess only single women can "preach" now eh' ?). Y'all simply have your heels stubbornly & defiantly dug in - despite what the biblical data & original language-voice of Scriptures says. It's called "rebellion" to God's Word .


But, we're to accept your utter inability to even correctly quote your own resources - This has gotten' patently absurd .




However, nothing is said about the word prophesy/preach here. Only the word "teach". So therefore it remains, that as long as a woman is not trying to wrest authority from her husband, and as long she is not trying to instruct him, then she has not overstepped her bounds.


No, it does not "remain" that women can "preach-teach" men in the church - the Greek verb "teach" virtually always defines as "to teach from the Scriptures." The moment a women "teaches-preaches" in the church - both her & the pastor who allowed it have already "overstepped (their) bounds".


The word Preaching (2097) in Greek is euaggelizó: to announce good news is a great example of where a woman can be found preaching the good news.

Acts 8: 4 "Therefore they that were scattered abroad went everywhere preaching the word." The word "they" had been qualified in the previous verse as "men and women".


Sigh - No the word "they" is "qualified" by the text itself as explicating upon verse 1 & not verse 3. The "men and women" were in a prison cell - Kinda' hard to "go everywhere" from a prison cell!


8 And Saul approved of his execution. And there arose on that day a great persecution against the church in Jerusalem, and they were all scattered throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria, except the apostles. 2 Devout men buried Stephen and made great lamentation over him. 3 But Saul was ravaging the church, and entering house after house, he dragged off men and women and committed them to prison. 4 Now those who were scattered went about preaching the word.



Despite how hard y'all try to force it into the biblical text, this is NOT an instance of women expositing the Scriptures to men in the church - Silly.




Original Word: εὐαγγελίζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: euaggelizó
Phonetic Spelling: (yoo-ang-ghel-id'-zo)
Short Definition: I bring good news, preach good tidings
Definition: I bring good news, preach good tidings, with or without an object, expressing either the persons who receive the good news or the good news itself (the good news being sometimes expressed as a person).


Ummm, okay - And??



So we see that there is a role that women play in preaching the gospel, but they are instructed by Paul to not teach, instruct, or otherwise play an authoritative role over men, in keeping with the parallel between Christ/church and husband/wife. There is a role for women in the kingdom of God to work in the church, to be helpers, servants, preachers, and teachers of other women, according to Paul. There is a place for women to be used in the church to edify the church in the gifts of the spirit, and in the spreading of the gospel.

Women are expressly forbidden by Scripture to "preach-teach" men the Word of God in the church - period .



Try again Sis..........

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sasha

Really? That's how you feel about most people you preach to? That's how you feel about most people you witness to?

That's sad.

Not at all - That's the way it IS (not just how I "feel") with most folks claiming to follow Scriptures (as in this thread).


Yes, "That's Sad" - I agree .

[Roxanne Murphy]

Originally Posted by Abiding Now

In John 4, Jesus speaks to the un-named Samaritan woman, she is amazed and goes into the city telling the men in the city about the Lord. The men come to see the Lord and many become believers in Jesus being the Messiah. Wonderful story of personal witnessing! I was wondering WHY, if the woman was an evangelist (as some have said) that "preached" to the men of the city, WHY did God in Acts 8 choose to send Philip the evangelist (Acts 21:8) to preached to them about the Holy Ghost and to baptize them in Jesus Name? And WHY did God send Peter and John to lay hands on them to receive the Holy Ghost? Could it be because the Samaritan woman did her part as a personal witness to introduce the men of Samaria to the Lord, but God still needed a preacher to preach to them, baptize them and lay hands on the men to receive the Holy Ghost?

Just wondering.

These two instances were separated by some time, AND, Jesus met the woman IN Samaria. We don't know if she ever left her city but those like Philip and Peter and John, after being present and involved in the birth of the New Testament church, were fulfilling Jesus' commandment to be witnesses on Jerusalem and Judaea and Samaria and to the uttermost part of the earth.

[Sasha]

Originally Posted by rdp

Oh my goodness - soooo - well, never mind .

Perhaps you should be more careful in what you say.

[Sasha]

Originally Posted by rdp

Ummm, did you even read the passages Pliny posted to you - were the examples he listed preachers in the 5-fold ministry ?



And, once again (as usual), no textual response to the evidences we've offered - just mere denial with nothing to support the same !



It's a plumb-silly argument .

Where did the term '5 fold ministry' come from? Do you think only those listed by Paul are able to 'preach'? Since I don't believe that, then your post makes no sense to what the scriptures are really saying. I don't believe in a '5 fold ministry'.

[Sasha]

Originally Posted by rdp

Not at all - That's the way it IS (not just how I "feel") with most folks claiming to follow Scriptures (as in this thread).


Yes, "That's Sad" - I agree .

Don't you also 'claim' to follow scripture? Your opinion doesn't make that statement truth. I really do find it sad that you feel people you talk to about scripture don't really want to know the truth of them. If I felt that way about my job, I'd find another career.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sasha

Perhaps you should be more careful in what you say.

Perhaps you should be more careful in how you "read" .

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sasha

Where did the term '5 fold ministry' come from? Do you think only those listed by Paul are able to 'preach'? Since I don't believe that, then your post makes no sense to what the scriptures are really saying. I don't believe in a '5 fold ministry'.

Well of course you don't "believe in a 5-fold ministry" - it's biblical - & you don't believe the Bible (or else you wouldn't be defending "women-preachers") .



Hmmm, let's count together now shall we?


11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles (1), some prophets (2), some evangelists (3), and some pastors (4) and teachers (5), 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, for the edifying of the body of Christ.




Lemme' guess - another "mistranslation" - Right ?

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sasha

Don't you also 'claim' to follow scripture? Your opinion doesn't make that statement truth. I really do find it sad that you feel people you talk to about scripture don't really want to know the truth of them. If I felt that way about my job, I'd find another career.

Ummm, did you not read where I've already affirmed that I'm not at all talking about people I witness to (though, if they have an ounce of religion in them - they usually reject biblical salvation), but rather folks just like you & many others on this thread?


LOL - I do not have "opinions" when it comes to Bible doctrine - I simply allow careful examination of the biblical data to inform my conclusions & teach/preach the same to others.


You oughta' walk away from your constant rabbit-trails & give it a try !


To be honest, many on here need to repent for their dishonesty with the clear instructions in God's Word (won't hold my breath though ).