End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sasha

You can assume to know what Paul meant by the word for servant, but you weren't there. Paul chose that word for a reason. If he wanted to be more specific, there were many other words for him to use. Assuming what he meant doesn't make your case. I was simply showing he used the same word for himself that he used for Phoebe. If she was merely a servant, it would make no sense for Paul to instruct others to help her in whatever she asked of them.


When I was taking Greek class the professor would constantly state, "Words mean what they do according to context." This is what you fail to see - the primary meaning of this Greek noun is simply "servant or waiter" (despite how much people scorn & sneer ) - Still need more evidence, which I'm sure you'll just ignore - again ?



Dr. A. T. Robertson, "1249 (diákonos) properly means 'to kick up dust,' as one running an errand." 1249 (diákonos) is the root of the English terms, "diaconate, deacon."

This root (diakon-) is "probably connected with the verb diōkō, 'to hasten after, pursue' (perhaps originally said of a runner)" (Vine, Unger, White, NT, 147).



Lemme' Guess - Another "mistranslation" - right ?




As for his Holy Ghost inspirations and commands, have to resorted to following his command to greet your fellow man with a holy kiss? Have you ever?



Ahhhh yes, time for the ol' "kiss" argument. Wanna' know the difference? We're not strictly forbidden to "not" greet with a holy kiss - as in "I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet."


Besides, I have greeted brethren with a holy kiss in times past (& some still do!) - Your point??



Paul also instructed that men study to be quiet. Instead what I see is men telling women they should be quiet..men telling women who are not their wives! That's not biblical!

Hmmm, what Book was that we read those words - what was it - Ohhh, that's right, it was called the "Bible" ?


New International Version
I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

New Living Translation
I do not let women teach men or have authority over them. Let them listen quietly.

English Standard Version
I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

New American Standard Bible
But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.

King James Bible
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
I do not allow a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; instead, she is to be silent.

NET Bible
But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man. She must remain quiet.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For I do not allow a woman to teach, neither to usurp over a man, but she should be quiet;

GOD'S WORD® Translation
I don't allow a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. Instead, she should be quiet.

Jubilee Bible 2000
For I do not allow a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over a mature man, but to be at rest.

King James 2000 Bible
But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have authority over the man, but to be in silence.

American King James Version
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

American Standard Version
But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness.

Douay-Rheims Bible
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to use authority over the man: but to be in silence.

Darby Bible Translation
but I do not suffer a woman to teach nor to exercise authority over man, but to be in quietness;

English Revised Version
But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness.

Webster's Bible Translation
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Weymouth New Testament
I do not permit a woman to teach, nor have authority over a man, but she must remain silent.

World English Bible
But I don't permit a woman to teach, nor to exercise authority over a man, but to be in quietness.



Silly "mistranslations" !

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Such an awesome thing happened tonight...I sure did not plan to preach tonight as it was a special service and I thought Raul Jr would preach or Brother Alvear...I did not even take the right Bible! After they called Raul Jr he said my father is going to say something but I want my mother to say something after him since this church is the fruits of labor of many years ago of my mother...There sat the 1st pastor's wife in her 80's...It was over 40 years I had known her....but the most part were young people...I had no idea what to say but as I walked to the pulpit the Lord spoke to me and said, Marriage trouble....I told the church what the Lord said...and we waited a few minutes in HIS presence and the Lord once again spoke to me to tell them to repent... and forgive...It was not long until several couples came to the front weeping...and we all gathered around praying.
What I did not know and the pastor told me after church one of those couples was in deep marriage problems and things were really bad...really...really bad....
They made things right and so did some others...after church they wanted to know if we could stay a little longer and go eat with them a little snack...so 20 or so of us went rejoicing with these little couples that God mended their broken hearts....Oh, what rejoicing....
I thought of the little song coming home tonight...If I can help somebody then my living will not be in vain....
My son told me coming home he knew about the problem and he knew whatever he said they might know he knew...but he knew I knew nothing....
So whether you call it prophecy...or whatever just glad to be a part of helping people in someway....

Finally!


This is biblical "prophecy" (προφητεύω) - & is exactly what I've been trying to get y'all to see for 70 pp. now.



Biblical prophecy is either spontaneous foretelling or an instantaneous revealing of things hidden to the natural eye - not a "sermon from the Scriptures."



I whole-heartedly rejoice in true biblical "prophecy" !

[Roxanne Murphy]

Originally Posted by Pliny

It helps to get the citation right...

Lots of vitriol here. I suppose you are a woman preacher?
FTR I don't care. I don't believe it's right, according to scripture, but there is to much work to do for me to get worked up about it. I will however stand for what I believe.

Yes a correct citation is always good. Typing comments to this forum from my little iPhone 4 is my biggest challenge, but it helps me remember that I am, alas, human

Am I a woman preacher? That is not my calling and vocation, but I have in the course of following the leading of the Holy Ghost, preached a few messages, laid hands on the sick and saw them recover, cast out devils, prayed a good amount of folks through to their own personal Pentecost. I desire above all to grow in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ to raise my precious children to have their own relationship with Jesus, and to introduce as many souls as I can to the gospel that is the power of God to salvation to everyone who believes.
The more I read in God's Word, the more I see just how limited my understanding has been about many things. I used to be afraid to admit such a thing, but no longer. And I get quite annoyed by those who judge the salvation of everybody else according to their own doctrine, (generally built on a small foundation of a handful of cherry picked verses ripped out of context to support a personal belief).
For example: the same passage in 1 Corinthians 14 that supposedly forbids women preachers also, when applied the same way, forbids the current popular Pentecostal practice of everybody speaking in tongues altogether without an interpretor.

[Roxanne Murphy]

Also, that passage in 1 Corinthians 14, if applied in the same way as the part that supposedly forbids a woman to preach/speak/teach in a church service, says that if wives want to learn anything they need to ask their husbands at home so another man shouldn't be teaching married women in the church that is the husband's job.
See how easy it is to pull the scriptures out of context? That is the whole problem with the two verses that keep being tossed out as the ultimate be all end all regarding women preachers: they are pulled out of a larger context that is damaged when these verses are wrongly applied.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Roxanne Murphy

Yes a correct citation is always good. Typing comments to this forum from my little iPhone 4 is my biggest challenge, but it helps me remember that I am, alas, human

Am I a woman preacher? That is not my calling and vocation, but I have in the course of following the leading of the Holy Ghost, preached a few messages, laid hands on the sick and saw them recover, cast out devils, prayed a good amount of folks through to their own personal Pentecost.


The Holy Spirit does not "lead" people to disobey His Word - Sorry.




I desire above all to grow in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ to raise my precious children to have their own relationship with Jesus, and to introduce as many souls as I can to the gospel that is the power of God to salvation to everyone who believes.


Very commendable - sincerely.



The more I read in God's Word, the more I see just how limited my understanding has been about many things. I used to be afraid to admit such a thing, but no longer. And I get quite annoyed by those who judge the salvation of everybody else according to their own doctrine, (generally built on a small foundation of a handful of cherry picked verses ripped out of context to support a personal belief).


LOL - the specific "context" & the actual inspired grammar of the texts is exactly what forces my conclusion - I have no other option if I want to be honest with the Bible.



For example: the same passage in 1 Corinthians 14 that supposedly forbids women preachers also, when applied the same way, forbids the current popular Pentecostal practice of everybody speaking in tongues altogether without an interpretor.

First, there's no "supposedly" forbidding of "women-preachers" in I Cor. 14 (or any of the other relevant passages) - It is crystal-clear.


Second, let's read the passage you've referenced in its entire "context":


But if no one is present who can interpret, they must be silent in your church meeting and speak in tongues to God privately.



However (& this may surprise you ), I would agree with you that it's completely out of order for everyone to be screaming out in tongues simultaneously (& hardly anyone ever addresses it) - it drives me nuts when I hear it .

[Pliny]

Originally Posted by Sasha

You can assume to know what Paul meant by the word for servant, but you weren't there. Paul chose that word for a reason. If he wanted to be more specific, there were many other words for him to use. Assuming what he meant doesn't make your case. I was simply showing he used the same word for himself that he used for Phoebe. If she was merely a servant, it would make no sense for Paul to instruct others to help her in whatever she asked of them.

As for his Holy Ghost inspirations and commands, have to resorted to following his command to greet your fellow man with a holy kiss? Have you ever?

Paul also instructed that men study to be quiet. Instead what I see is men telling women they should be quiet..men telling women who are not their wives! That's not biblical!

Fortunately I do not need to "assume" anything. Paul was VERY CLEAR in what he taught. Also, the CONTEXT is very clear. I understand some do not like what it says but it says it nonetheless. Yes Paul used the same word with Phebe. He also included the whole church:

2 Corinthians 6:4
The context again is speaking of διάκονος (service) in general and not speaking of a specific church office. Every Christian is a διάκονος (servant) to God.

So is everyone in the church a junior leader? Yes, that's a rhetorical question because we know the answer... The CONTEXT determines the definition and by CONTEXT women cannot be διάκονος because Paul under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost said:
(1Ti 3:8 KJV) Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
(1Ti 3:9 KJV) Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
(1Ti 3:10 KJV) And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
(1Ti 3:11 KJV) Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.

After setting the standard for the διάκονος Paul moves on to their wives. Therefore, he is qualifying διάκονος as men because they have wives.

As to the "holy kiss" thing, RDP has been over that so many times on this forum I lost count. It is simply a straw man argument and does nothing to advance the position that women were διάκονος (junior leaders) when Paul explicitly forbids it when he positively stated their qualifications for them and THEIR wives.

As to the last part of the post, that sounds a bit rebellious with a splash of bitterness.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Roxanne Murphy

Also, that passage in 1 Corinthians 14, if applied in the same way as the part that supposedly forbids a woman to preach/speak/teach in a church service, says that if wives want to learn anything they need to ask their husbands at home so another man shouldn't be teaching married women in the church that is the husband's job.


"If they have any questions, they should ask their husbands at home, for it is improper for women to speak in church meetings."



The verse begins with what's called a "conditional particle" (εἰ) - indicating an introduction to an ensuing "condition" (in this case "IF" the woman wants to ask questions). The point of proper decorum & order is underscored by Paul's usage of the conjunction translated "for" (γάρ) in the last clause - as in "FOR it is improper for women to speak in church meetings."



Hence, verse 35 is only underscoring & strengthening the point of verse 34 - not weakening it in any way.



See how easy it is to pull the scriptures out of context?


Yes I do - You just did it !



That is the whole problem with the two verses that keep being tossed out as the ultimate be all end all regarding women preachers: they are pulled out of a larger context that is damaged when these verses are wrongly applied.

Well, you should know - you just did it !

[Pliny]

Originally Posted by Roxanne Murphy

Yes a correct citation is always good. Typing comments to this forum from my little iPhone 4 is my biggest challenge, but it helps me remember that I am, alas, human

Am I a woman preacher? That is not my calling and vocation, but I have in the course of following the leading of the Holy Ghost, preached a few messages, laid hands on the sick and saw them recover, cast out devils, prayed a good amount of folks through to their own personal Pentecost. I desire above all to grow in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ to raise my precious children to have their own relationship with Jesus, and to introduce as many souls as I can to the gospel that is the power of God to salvation to everyone who believes.
The more I read in God's Word, the more I see just how limited my understanding has been about many things. I used to be afraid to admit such a thing, but no longer. And I get quite annoyed by those who judge the salvation of everybody else according to their own doctrine, (generally built on a small foundation of a handful of cherry picked verses ripped out of context to support a personal belief).
For example: the same passage in 1 Corinthians 14 that supposedly forbids women preachers also, when applied the same way, forbids the current popular Pentecostal practice of everybody speaking in tongues altogether without an interpretor.

I am happy to hear about the working of God in your life. May continue.
As to the whole 1 Corinthians 14 post... This is simply another rabbit trail. There is a difference between the "gift of tongues" and the baptism of the Holy Ghost evidenced by the speaking in other tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance - just as it was on the day of Pentecost, since you brought it up.

Still according to biblical qualifications bishops and deacons are men.

[Dordrecht]

Originally Posted by rdp

Well, here we go again - same ol' arguments that have been addressed over & over & over .


Here is the actual definition of the noun translated "servant":

Original Word: διάκονος, οῦ, ὁ, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine; Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: diakonos
Phonetic Spelling: (dee-ak'-on-os)
Short Definition: a waiter, servant, administrator
Definition: a waiter, servant; then of any one who performs any service, an administrator.



Still not convinced - Hmmm, let's try another lexical source then:


2. a deacon, one who, by virtue of the office assigned him by the church, cares for the poor and has charge of and distributes the money collected for their use (cf. BB. DD., Dict. of Christ. Antiq., Schaff-Herzog under the word ; Lightfoot's Commentary on Philippians, dissert. i. § i.; Julius Muller, Dogmatische Abhandlungen, p. 560ff): Philippians 1:1; 1 Timothy 3:8, 12, cf. Acts 6:3ff; ἡ διάκονος, a deaconess (ministra, Pliny, epistles 10, 97), a woman to whom the care of either poor or sick women was entrusted, Romans 16:1 (cf. Dictionaries as above, under the word ; Lightfoot as above, p. 191; B. D. under the word ).



Your logic is the same that says, "Since most police officers wear dark-colored shirts - everyone who wears a dark shirt must be a police officer!"


Sorry - This dodge won't work either gals - Next?

Why all these big letters and colours.
Do you think we are blind?

[berkeley]

title of this thread cracks me up