Bott '14

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Calling someone an "Idiot" usually results in discipline in our family.

Ours, too, Hoovie...but it appears that JA apologized to SG. What else can be done?

[n david]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Ours, too, Hoovie...but it appears that JA apologized to SG. What else can be done?

Public flogging?

Unfortunately, the private apology pales when considering how public the remark was.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by n david

Back to what we know for a fact what JA said...

"Well, if you got a bunch of hell and chaos and crisis in your church after 3 years being there, it's your fault."

Did you get the exact quote yet? I'm surprised that DA hasn't posted it as he spends most of his waking hours pulling threads out of men's coats.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I would go with this one.

You left out the part when JA says, "I refuse to be held hostage to bad behaviour by people who disappoint me. I am not guilty because people do stuff wrong. I am not guilty because people take their clothes off. I am not guilty because people do drugs and watch porno junk. I will not be blamed for that. I teach you how to do right. I try to pray. I fast. I am an honest man. I am a moral man. I pay my bills. I don't scam people. I don't cheat anybody. And because you're an idiot, how come I am getting blamed?"

Why don't we listen to what JA is up in arms about. BECAUSE, I have been there, and know what it feels like to do everything right, and have stupid people do stupid things. It is NOT my fault, and he is saying it is not his either.

So, let's look at our experiences and realize that JA has a good point. I go back to what I stated earlier - JA is pushing back on Maxwell's point because it is a BROADBRUSH to all good men who should not be blamed for the boorish behaviour of other people.

How many times has a man of God left the pulpit exhausted from bearing his heart, trying to pull someone out of the direction of hell and see they couldn't stop the person from their folly.
For heaven's sake, instead of jumping on his case because he is UPC, let's listen to what he is actually saying. I get it! And JA is NOT saying pastors are ALWAYS right. If you have heard anything he has said in the past, you know that to be true.

It's a ministers job to preach. More pointed, to preach love and the message of salvation. If they bear their heart that is all they can do. I agree JA was on to something there, but I am not sure where he was going with it all. I mean he was on track with a great point then it went into "idiot" speak. So, if what he was trying to say (or at least the point he was trying to make) didn't have anything to do with whether he felt Maxwell or SG was an idiot. It was him adding spice to sermons as he has been known to do before. But don't be too hard on the "person" that you said had "folly." It is up to them to make the decision to get up and change their life. JA was right, but then he went into a self-righteous info dump. But I think I understand why. I think he was trying to justify what he was saying.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Jack Shephard

It's a ministers job to preach. More pointed, to preach love and the message of salvation. If they bear their heart that is all they can do. I agree JA was on to something there, but I am not sure where he was going with it all.

Really? Do yo have a problem with reading comprehension?

"I refuse to be held hostage to bad behaviour by people who disappoint me. I am not guilty because people do stuff wrong. I am not guilty because people take their clothes off. I am not guilty because people do drugs and watch porno junk. I will not be blamed for that. I teach you how to do right. I try to pray. I fast. I am an honest man. I am a moral man. I pay my bills. I don't scam people. I don't cheat anybody. And because you're an idiot, how come I am getting blamed?"

I mean he was on track with a great point then it went into "idiot" speak. So, if what he was trying to say (or at least the point he was trying to make) didn't have anything to do with whether he felt Maxwell or SG was an idiot. It was him adding spice to sermons as he has been known to do before. But don't be too hard on the "person" that you said had "folly." It is up to them to make the decision to get up and change their life. JA was right, but then he went into a self-righteous info dump. But I think I understand why. I think he was trying to justify what he was saying.

No one is being hard on the person choosing folly. It is simply a heart wrenching feeling.

He perfectly stated where he was coming from, although, yes, he does get heavy on the "idiot" and always has. I realized after listening to the clip, I usually ignore it and listen to what he is saying, because he has some deep experiences and feelings that I can identify with.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Really? Do yo have a problem with reading comprehension?

"I refuse to be held hostage to bad behaviour by people who disappoint me. I am not guilty because people do stuff wrong. I am not guilty because people take their clothes off. I am not guilty because people do drugs and watch porno junk. I will not be blamed for that. I teach you how to do right. I try to pray. I fast. I am an honest man. I am a moral man. I pay my bills. I don't scam people. I don't cheat anybody. And because you're an idiot, how come I am getting blamed?"

No one is being hard on the person choosing folly. It is simply a heart wrenching feeling.

He perfectly stated where he was coming from, although, yes, he does get heavy on the "idiot" and always has. I realized after listening to the clip, I usually ignore it and listen to what he is saying, because he has some deep experiences and feelings that I can identify with.

I read good. I went to a Christian school.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Jack Shephard

I read good. I went to a Christian school.

LOL!

[n david]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

He perfectly stated where he was coming from, although, yes, he does get heavy on the "idiot" and always has.

When was the last time you heard JA call another minister an idiot who needed brain surgery? I've heard JA preach many times and never heard him call another minister an idiot who needed brain surgery.

Still surprised you would support this kind of behavior from a minister.

There have been a lot of messages in which JA has complained about people in his church...which makes me wonder, is it the people that are the issue, or is it JA? I couldn't imagine attending a church where the Pastor regularly called people jerks, nincompoops, idiots, liars, etc.

Again, I'm not talking about sin; I'm going back to the alleged quote by Maxwell and SG that apparently put salt on JA's wound.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by n david

When was the last time you heard JA call another minister an idiot who needed brain surgery? I've heard JA preach many times and never heard him call another minister an idiot who needed brain surgery.

Still surprised you would support this kind of behavior from a minister.

There have been a lot of messages in which JA has complained about people in his church...which makes me wonder, is it the people that are the issue, or is it JA? I couldn't imagine attending a church where the Pastor regularly called people jerks, nincompoops, idiots, liars, etc.

Again, I'm not talking about sin; I'm going back to the alleged quote by Maxwell and SG that apparently put salt on JA's wound.

"alleged". We need to have an exact quote here.

I've heard him enough and read some his books to believe I understand him as a person. I'm not defending him in the sense of using that language as a proper training message. I don't hear other people emulating him, so whatever he is doing, it is, as Bratti stated,

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I don't know where JA is from, but I do know that in some places, that is just *how* people talk. (rough/coarse)

which makes it less alarming to me.

He's had some very deep hard knock experiences and has moved closer to looking and believing for miracles of healing, etc., which makes me value the information he shares. I especially like how he shares some of his conversations with God and how God answers his many questions and problems. I can overlook that part of his personality.

He asked the minister not to be offended before he said what he did. So, again, it shows that he is using his way of expressing himself, which the audience is very well aware of.

I think that he realized he may have, in his passion, gone a little too far, evidenced by how the audience gasped. IOW, even though the audience knows him very well, they had never experienced him acting out in that fashion. All of these things can be corrected. As Bratti stated, words to effect, it isn't as though he committed a criminal offense.

If DA doesn't like what someone says, he edits a clip and crucifies them on YouTube. He has done that with others, and I find it repugnant and totally outside the realm of Christianity. It is pure hate on his part.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

He asked the minister not to be offended before he said what he did.

I know he said that, and I find it ridiculous that someone would say, "Oh please don't be offended, but YOU'RE AN IDIOT. You need brain surgery!"

That's like Rep Wilson telling obama, "Hey Prez, don't be offended, but you're a liar!"

Doesn't work. The offense is there in spite of the pathetic attempt to blunt it.

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

So, again, it shows that he is using his way of expressing himself, which the audience is very well aware of.

I understand it's his schtick, his gimmick; however, as was said before, you would think he would mature beyond the crude and juvenile and grow up a bit by now.

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I think that he realized he may have, in his passion, gone a little too far, evidenced by how the audience gasped. IOW, even though the audience knows him very well, they had never experienced him acting out in that fashion.

Self-control is a fruit of the spirit. As is kindness, love, gentleness -- none of which was exhibited during that clip. He'd do well to exercise a little more of those fruits. If his "passion" is too great for him to control, he shouldn't be preaching at these conferences.

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

All of these things can be corrected. As Bratti stated, words to effect, it isn't as though he committed a criminal offense.

True, though I doubt he'll change, especially if he continues to get offers to preach at camp meetings and conferences.