Bott '14

[BalancedLife]

Originally Posted by Jack Shephard

BOTT is a bit overrated in my opininon. It seems that all the sermons are the same. Just saying...

I went to BOTT a few years back, and yes it is overrated. It is not practical to the audience attending in my opinion. If you have 2,500 - 3,000 preachers/evangelists/pastors why not gear the conference toward their needs instead of cramming in 2 preachers per service so no one preacher is "offended" that they didn't get asked to preach BOTT?

What about break-out sessions, evangelism tools, classes on church finances? I mean POA is a well-oiled machine and that didn't happen by accident. Why not use and market the model that built POA and instruct those that come and attend on matters like these? Why not have classes available to help reach the homeless, orphaned or widowed in their city so they can fulfill more of a purpose for Christ? Why not have a session for younger ministers who feel that God is calling them to plant churches? Give them instructions on small groups, structuring your non-profit corporation, how to purchase insurance, etc.?

I am fine with good preaching, but make the conference more practical to the church of 2014. But no, it is the same thing over and over. Think I am kidding, if any of you are on Twitter and are somewhat connected to anyone attending the conference, here is a popular quote just to show you instead of really making a difference to the audience, agendas are still being pushed. You all know with this quote what the message was about, no need to divulge:

"My personal holiness is the best gift that I can give to Jesus"

[n david]

Originally Posted by BalancedLife

I went to BOTT a few years back, and yes it is overrated. It is not practical to the audience attending in my opinion. If you have 2,500 - 3,000 preachers/evangelists/pastors why not gear the conference toward their needs instead of cramming in 2 preachers per service so no one preacher is "offended" that they didn't get asked to preach BOTT?

They're not worried about preachers being offended they're not included. Mike Williams and TF Tenney are not preaching this year. They used to have more in the morning/afternoon part. It's actually been reduced this year from previous years when I went in the 90s.

Originally Posted by BalancedLife

What about break-out sessions, evangelism tools, classes on church finances? I mean POA is a well-oiled machine and that didn't happen by accident. Why not use and market the model that built POA and instruct those that come and attend on matters like these? Why not have classes available to help reach the homeless, orphaned or widowed in their city so they can fulfill more of a purpose for Christ? Why not have a session for younger ministers who feel that God is calling them to plant churches? Give them instructions on small groups, structuring your non-profit corporation, how to purchase insurance, etc.?

All good ideas, but it's not geared to be a seminar-style event. That's what General Conference has become.

Originally Posted by BalancedLife

I am fine with good preaching, but make the conference more practical to the church of 2014. But no, it is the same thing over and over.

Yeah, shame on them for preaching the Bible over and over and over....

Originally Posted by BalancedLife

Think I am kidding, if any of you are on Twitter and are somewhat connected to anyone attending the conference, here is a popular quote just to show you instead of really making a difference to the audience, agendas are still being pushed. You all know with this quote what the message was about, no need to divulge:

"My personal holiness is the best gift that I can give to Jesus"

Scandalous!

I'd like to know the context and message in which this quote was given. And yes, it's important to know that information before making any assumptions about its meaning.

[n david]

Originally Posted by BalancedLife

if any of you are on Twitter and are somewhat connected to anyone attending the conference, here is a popular quote just to show you instead of really making a difference to the audience, agendas are still being pushed. You all know with this quote what the message was about, no need to divulge:

"My personal holiness is the best gift that I can give to Jesus"

What do you think the quote is about?

[BalancedLife]

Originally Posted by n david

What do you think the quote is about?

There is no such thing as personal holiness. Holiness (by Greek/Hebrew definition) means piety or separation unto God. Paul gave us what true holiness entails in Ephesians 4:24-32 which says:

24 and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness. 25 Therefore, having put away falsehood, let each one of you speak the truth with his neighbor, for we are members one of another. 26 Be angry and do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger, 27 and give no opportunity to the devil. 28 Let the thief no longer steal, but rather let him labor, doing honest work with his own hands, so that he may have something to share with anyone in need. 29 Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear. 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. 32 Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.

Holiness means there are things that I do after I receive the Spirit to separate myself unto God. It all has to do with actions, speech and the heart. So with that being said, the term "personal holiness" is not Biblical because we are unholy man and partake or inherit holiness from God at Spirit baptism. Holiness is God's attribute and therefore cannot become "personal" for any of us, because it is the very essence of God. That's why He said, "be ye holy, for I am holy".

But what I glean from the man's quote is this - he is referring to what he feels are a set of standards that are corporate in setting but have become "personal" to him because he received a revelation of holiness (in regard to standards). So, he thinks that this revelation received and the choice to make the set of standards his own, is the most pleasing thing to God that he can do. This goes against the Word, because loving one another (Agape) is the best gift that I can give to Jesus because He said the greatest commandment is to love the Lord God and love your neighbor as yourself.

[n david]

Originally Posted by BalancedLife

There is no such thing as personal holiness. Holiness (by Greek/Hebrew definition) means piety or separation unto God. Paul gave us what true holiness entails in Ephesians 4:24-32 which says:

24 and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness. 25 Therefore, having put away falsehood, let each one of you speak the truth with his neighbor, for we are members one of another. 26 Be angry and do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger, 27 and give no opportunity to the devil. 28 Let the thief no longer steal, but rather let him labor, doing honest work with his own hands, so that he may have something to share with anyone in need. 29 Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear. 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. 32 Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.

Holiness means there are things that I do after I receive the Spirit to separate myself unto God. It all has to do with actions, speech and the heart. So with that being said, the term "personal holiness" is not Biblical because we are unholy man and partake or inherit holiness from God at Spirit baptism. Holiness is God's attribute and therefore cannot become "personal" for any of us, because it is the very essence of God. That's why He said, "be ye holy, for I am holy".

I see what you're saying, and even agree that Holiness is of God and not our own; however, the scripture you quoted above is quite personal. It's not that holiness is of our own, but that it's been applied to us. The scripture above is personal. Even what you wrote below it, "Holiness means there are things that I do..." That's personal, wouldn't you agree?

Originally Posted by BalancedLife

But what I glean from the man's quote is this - he is referring to what he feels are a set of standards that are corporate in setting but have become "personal" to him because he received a revelation of holiness (in regard to standards). So, he thinks that this revelation received and the choice to make the set of standards his own, is the most pleasing thing to God that he can do.

That's amazing! Seriously. To get all of that just from one single sentence of an entire message is really incredible. It may well be that he's talking about outward dress standards, but I'd still like to know the context and message before trying to analyze what he meant by a single quote.

Originally Posted by BalancedLife

This goes against the Word, because loving one another (Agape) is the best gift that I can give to Jesus because He said the greatest commandment is to love the Lord God and love your neighbor as yourself.

I agree...though a commandment is something that must be followed, and a gift is something given without being forced.

[BalancedLife]

Originally Posted by n david

I see what you're saying, and even agree that Holiness is of God and not our own; however, the scripture you quoted above is quite personal. It's not that holiness is of our own, but that it's been applied to us. The scripture above is personal. Even what you wrote below it, "Holiness means there are things that I do..." That's personal, wouldn't you agree?

No, I do not agree that Ephesians 4:24-32 is personal (it is a corporate lesson given to the church by God through Paul), letting them know how to be holy or possess holiness in their life. It can only be achieved after we are endowed with the Spirit of God and thereby imparted with holiness. Yes, I said "there are things I do..." but I can only do them through the holiness that was given unto me, not because I have made it personal. Holiness is not a revelation to receive, it is an impartation given by God.

I guess what I am boiling it down to is this - I saw some other quotes from the same preacher during that message talking about those who "lost" their holiness standards and then I saw the quote I put in my comment about it being personal. It lead me to believe that this preacher is equating a standard of dress or a certain look to God's true holiness (it is not by any stretch of the imagination). I cannot find the other quote or I would add it, I do not want to incorrectly quote the man since I cannot find it.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by n david

When I click the link Prax posted, I see a "Coming up Next" with the Sunday AM and PM service listed. No "Connect" button or link.

I tried yesterday at POA's website, nothing there either.

yes. at the far right in that box, see 'connect,' with two, currently red links. when they start ULing to the site, those will become good links--in theory, anyway.

[tv1a]

Pretty much dead on. If Jeff Arnold didn't have his episode, he wouldn't have new material.

Originally Posted by Jack Shephard

BOTT is a bit overrated in my opininon. It seems that all the sermons are the same. Just saying...

[tv1a]

BOTT's best days are behind them. It doesn't help Stockton schedules their indoctrination love fest about the same time.

Originally Posted by n david

Try telling that to the one's who actually attend the conference.

[n david]

Originally Posted by tv1a

BOTT's best days are behind them. It doesn't help Stockton schedules their indoctrination love fest about the same time.

That must be why BOTT is packed out year after year.