I'd keep an eye on that dude in the KISS shirt... looks a little glassy eyed there..
lol
Most everybody I ever knew that owned a Kiss shirt was glassy eyed on a regular basis.
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Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. (Romans 14:4)
Scripture is its own interpreter. Nothing can cut a diamond but a diamond. Nothing can interpret Scripture but Scripture" Thomas Watson.
Renee, do you attend a home church? are you part of that kind of structure?
No Ferd, I can't find one. There's probably a dozen in this area. I've went to several, and either, 1. Either they are strict on man-made rules for women. (no pant suits) or 2. They are so liberal that anything goes. Tying to keep up with the world in music, (The last one I went to, I wanted to put my hands over my ears, and was glad when the music stopped.
Trying to keep up with the world at Christmas and Easter. Absolutely Pagan Holidays, and the world knows it, but the church looks the other way.
Now tell me, where can I go to church?
I have been in Pentecost since I was about 6 yrs. old, I was in that church for about 30 Yrs. I was very quiet and passive and hardly ever voiced my opinion. And then we got a Dictator for a Pastor, and that is when I really started studying on my own. Finally God told us, my husband and I, to leave that church, which we did, very quietly.
I've had to leave other churches, that were not preaching the Word, the last one, the Pastor went into false doctrine even deeper than he was.
a major reason men aren't as interested in 'church' as they used to be i believe has to do with the lack of teaching and modeling concerning the proper role men have in the church and in the home. A man who just wants to plop down on the couch after work and watch tv is a man who has no clue (or doesn't care) about his role as a spiritual leader in his home or in his church (if he even bothers with church). People don't see church by and large as the kingdom of god involved in governmental functions of ruling and taking dominion spiritually and morally, and having a positive dominion-oriented impact on society. So, men just don't see much there to interest them, because there's really not much there to begin with.
As for 'men's ministry', churches ought to be teaching men how to be leaders, how to be one who 'is heard in the gates' of society, how to lead their family in the ways of god. But this is hard to do when jesus is presented as a 'care bear' who exists to make everything all right or who exists to fulfill our wants. That is a presentation that is geared toward women, who need to feel secure and 'taken care of'. And that aspect of god's care is certainly necessary (can't leave women out!), but if that is the only type of god being presented, or if mostly being presented, men aren't going to recognise that as anything worth following.
Men need several things to be 'fulfilled' -
1. A woman to rescue.
2. A cause to fight and die for.
3. A brotherhood to belong to.
4. A king to follow.
Jesus is a most worthy king to follow - he literally 'went to hell and back' for us. What man would not feel honoured to follow such a glorious and faithful leader? He is a great king, the greatest king, and it is an honour and a priviledge to serve him faithfully and valiantly.
Normal men do not resonate with the idea of expressing sappy, sentimental 'love' to another man... 'jesus, come and take me away' just doesn't work with a normal guy.
Christ loved the church, and gave himself for it. In this manner men ought to love their wives. Yes, christ is head of the church, and the man is the head of the woman, but the power of the chivalric aspect of sacrificing oneself for the "love of one's youth" cannot be underestimated.
(of course, such a thing requires a woman who is not a quasi-lesbian brat who demands to 'wear the pants', but requires an actual woman with true femininity...)
christian men ought to feel they are a 'band of brothers', brothers in arms in the service of the king. Fighting a cause worth their efforts, worth dying for. What greater cause can there be than the salvation of mankind, and the enforcement of the pax christi upon this world of spiritual darkness?
All these things and more are essential to the god-endowed natural makeup of men... And most if not all these things are missing in 'church' these days. They are also missing in society, in general, having been replaced with effeminized phil donahue neutering (aka babylonian castration) and a false 'machismo' which is nothing but an evil caricature of true godly manhood.
There is a reason 'sports', especially football (american football, not that goofy european kickball game) has such a grip on men... The team is alike a military squad, coach is the leader, they work together to defeat the enemy... The exact same purpose was served by jousting and other tourneys in the medieval period, it provides a safe way for men to be men without actually needing to cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war and ravage some poor town in the next valley.
And simply trying to fit 'onward christian soldiers' into the worship service isn't going to cut it.
No Ferd, I can't find one. There's probably a dozen in this area. I've went to several, and either, 1. Either they are strict on man-made rules for women. (no pant suits) or 2. They are so liberal that anything goes. Tying to keep up with the world in music, (The last one I went to, I wanted to put my hands over my ears, and was glad when the music stopped.
Trying to keep up with the world at Christmas and Easter. Absolutely Pagan Holidays, and the world knows it, but the church looks the other way.
Now tell me, where can I go to church?
I have been in Pentecost since I was about 6 yrs. old, I was in that church for about 30 Yrs. I was very quiet and passive and hardly ever voiced my opinion. And then we got a Dictator for a Pastor, and that is when I really started studying on my own. Finally God told us, my husband and I, to leave that church, which we did, very quietly.
I've had to leave other churches, that were not preaching the Word, the last one, the Pastor went into false doctrine even deeper than he was.
That was 13 yrs. ago. I'm more particular now.
I've told the family that I'd like to try a different church next Sunday. Not as much for my benefit, as for 2 little great granddaughters and a step grandson.
If I can go there at all, for their sake, I will.
Here's a question... and I know that this post with be REALLY controversial. Please read it all the way through before making a judgment so that you truly understand what I'm trying to say. Thank you for your patience and consideration on this my dearest brothers and sistersn, love you guys...
I love to study other traditions, religions, political views etc. However, in my studies I ran across a lot of information regarding the social structure of the family in Islam. One thing that I found is that in Islam a man can "discipline" not only his children... but also his wife. For example, in the Quran it's written:
"As to those women on whose part you see ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next,) refuse to share their beds, (and last,) beat them (lightly, if it is useful). But if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allah is Most High, Most Great." ~ [4:34]
If a wife isn't obedient or is guilty of ill-conduct, a husband is permitted to approach it in the following manner:
1. admonish them: The husband is to verbally admonish her
2. send them to beds apart: If that fails the husband is to sexually desert his wife
3. beat them: If both measures above fail the husband is permitted to physically discipline his wife.
The husband, as the manager of the home and family, increases the pressure on his wife to bring her into obedience to him. If physically disciplining her doesn’t work they will move towards divorce. (Note that obedience to her husband is not required if he orders her to do something sinful, causes her physical pain, or something she is incapable of doing).
In Guillaume’s translation of Ibn Ishaq's "Sirat Rasulallah" we read...
"You have rights over your wives, and they have rights over you. You have the right that they should not defile your bed and that they should not behave with open unseemliness. If they do, God allows you to put them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not with severity. If they refrain from these things and obey you, they have right to their food and clothing with kindness. Lay injunctions on women kindly, for they are your wards having no control of their persons."
In a way, this also implies that a man isn't bound to provide food and clothing for a disobedient or unseemly wife. An Islamic husband can lay injunctions on his wife, should she be incorrigible.
Also note that:
1.The beating is not to be vicious or severe.
2.Women are "wards" under men’s control. The Islamic definition of "ward" means a person who has been legally placed under the care of a guardian or court, or a person who is under the protection and control of another. Muslim wives are placed under their husband’s control.
Here are Muhammad Asad’s comments on disciplining a wife as found in his translation of the Quran.
"When the above Quran verse authorizing the beating of a refractory wife was revealed, the Prophet is reported to have said: "I wanted one thing, but God has willed another thing – and what God has willed must be best (see Manar V, 74). With all this, he stipulated in his sermon on the occasion of the Farewell Pilgrimage, shortly before his death, that the beating should be resorted to only if the wife "has become guilty, in an obvious manner, of immoral conduct", and that it should be done "in such a way as not to cause pain (ghayr mubarrih)"; authentic Traditions to this effect are found in Muslim, Tirmidhi, Abu Daud, Nasai and Ibn Majah. On the basis of these Traditions, all the authorities stress that this beating, if resorted to at all, should be more or less symbolic – "with a toothbrush, or some such thing" (Tabari, quoting the views of scholars of the earliest times), or even "with a folded handkerchief" (Razi); and some of the greatest Muslim scholars (e.g. Ash-Shafii) are of the opinion that it is just barely permissible, and should preferable be avoided: and they justify this opinion by the prophet’s personal feelings with regard to this problem."
The point is that in Islam a man has authority in his home. What makes that authority "real" is the ability to enforce said authority.
Imagine with me... What if the police were charged with keeping order in the streets and our neighborhoods... but was prohibited from using the force or means necessary to maintain that order? Take their guns, their Billy clubs, tasers, pepper spray, etc. And tell them that if they so much as raise their voice they can be charged with "menacing". Could such a police force keep order???
Now, let's turn to the Westernized Christian home and church. What can a man do to keep order in his home if his wife is behaving unseemly or is being brazenly disobedient and/or disrespectful??? In Western society a man has to be VERY careful. If you so much as raise your voice or "appear" to be threatening in any way... a woman can call the police and have you put in jail. Men have no authority in the home... if a woman doesn't wish to comply with God's order. And frankly, I have to ask... Is that real authority??? It's like being a "figurehead". Even the strongest and most manly of noble character cannot enforce order in his home... IF the wife isn't compliant.
Now... I've seen this time and time again... I've seen a woman desire her way in a situation and throw a virtual temper tantrum with screaming and even throwing dishes. And all too often I've seen the husband try to keep or regain his cool (so as to not go to jail or cause her to leave) and submit to her will... just to keep the peace and the family unit together. That's not authority. Sadly, if he so much as threatened her or touched her... she could press charges. Even if it were to grab her and sit her down to keep her from breaking all the dishes and possibly hurting herself! LOL
Now... I know some of our sisters are a bit hot under the collar wanting to know what my point is. My point is this... men have no authority... because men have no authority. lol
Now, I know that this is related to the home... but this "surrender" to female dominance and the emasculation of manhood propagated by society surely bleeds over into the church in a lot of cases. When it doesn't... the church is the ONLY institution wherein the male has authority to overrule a woman and has absolute authority. And still... a woman can get mouthy and leave the church and her husband begging her to come back. He has no authority to back up the husbandly guidance of, "Honey, I love you. You're going to church today. Now, get dressed."
All that said... am I wrong? What authority does a Christian husband really have in his family in Western society??? What measures can a Christian husband take to enforce the authority over the home that God has given him? It doesn't have to be "beating". I cringe at the notion. It's highly undesirable. What other means are available to the Christian man to actually maintain authority in the home? Without the ability to enforce authority... technically... there isn't any authority.
I'm not advocating physically disciplining one's wife. I just want to know how a man is to govern the home when he has no real way to enforce his guidance on the home? Because when one is only a figure head and he cannot govern the home... what else is there to do but take a seat on the lazy-boy and watch television, kill an occasional spider, take heavy items to the basement, and take out the trash??? lol He can "suggest" things. But in the end, we know the saying, "If momma aint happy... aint nobody happy." Shouldn't it be..., "If dad isn't happy... nobody is happy"? What does the church do to provide men that sense of responsibility, duty, and authority???
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