Jail/Homosexuality

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I don't agree with any display that looks like a mob mentality. What did they do for the woman who went into the building to get an abortion? Nothing. All she was left with was a sign in her face. All she was left with was her pain, as she went home alone.


Confrontation with someone you are personally acquainted with is a totally different scenario.

Maybe I should come back and explain my overall view and what influenced that view.

When my daughter was rebelling, for a period of time during her teenage years, I learned a huge lesson. I found that by not saying anything to anyone and going to God alone, circumstances began to change, and God began to work. When I would talk about it to my mother or anyone else, the situation would get worse.

When she came out of that place she had put herself, I was never the same and viewed the power of prayer and the power of the Holy Ghost in a whole different way. I didn't have to do anything but rely on the power of God. I didn't have to say anything to her. I didn't have to try to make her change, think of what I could do to make the situation better or right.

God did all of that, because I took my hands off of the problem.

How much influence would we have in this world if we targeted our prayers, asking God how do you want me to pray in and for this situation?

I am also remembering a time my son wanted to hear a Christian band, who wasn't the headliner, but played before the main act. I wasn't familiar with this group and so I went with him. Most of the kids were there for the main act. Just hundreds of kids who were apparently lost. I was so stunned by the crowd. When we got home I wept before God asking how in the world could all of these kids be reached. It seemed impossible. He told me to pray that someone would come to each community represented by these children to reach out to them. I doubt he was speaking of someone coming to hold posterboards in their faces. But, you get the idea - it's a one on one and direction from God.

There is power in prayer and I have much more confidence in that than I do the negative connotation that goes with picketing. And really that is all that is when you are holding up posterboards in a crowd of strangers.

So instead of telling the disciples to GO he should have just told them to pray? Actually we wind up telling God to do what he told US to do.

I don't believe one soul has ever been saved unless they were made aware of the fact they (personally) are a sinner. That is uncomfortable for the one witnessing but that's the way God set it up.

How do you KNOW the people in the video HATED the people they were witnessing to? I never noted them telling anyone that. It seems they must care for their soul if they are attempting to save them from the wrath to come.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by MarcBee

MTD, Yes! at least from a biblical-literalist perspective. Taking this concept a bit further, even the Westboro-Baptist-type Christian should be viewed as those who really, really believe their message, unlike those too afraid to confront society out in the open due to habits of niceness, propriety, fear, or all three. "But that style is not showing love..." Maybe so, maybe not. Depends on how real hell really is. If it's god who calls sinners to obey the gospel and avoid hell, then the message is way more important than the method--no matter how crass. IMO you can't top the crassness of eternal damnation.

When you begin with a false doctrine, all your conclusions will be false as well! Calvin and Augustine used the same logic: "God is going to burn them, so we will just help him out by burning the at the stack, and thereby warn others."

This is a distorted view of God and his plan of the ages, to reap the harvest of the creation, each in his own time. What happen to lambs before wolves???

Hell is real but it is NOT what you insinuate.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

So instead of telling the disciples to GO he should have just told them to pray? Actually we wind up telling God to do what he told US to do.

I don't believe one soul has ever been saved unless they were made aware of the fact they (personally) are a sinner. That is uncomfortable for the one witnessing but that's the way God set it up.

How do you KNOW the people in the video HATED the people they were witnessing to? I never noted them telling anyone that. It seems they must care for their soul if they are attempting to save them from the wrath to come.

I doubt the Disciples walked around with posterboards in their hands. They didn't need them.

Acts 5:12 The apostles performed many signs and wonders among the people. (14)Nevertheless, more and more men and women believed in the Lord and were added to their number. (15) As a result, people brought the sick into the streets and laid them on beds and mats so that at least Peter’s shadow might fall on some of them as he passed by. (16) Crowds gathered also from the towns around Jerusalem, bringing their sick and those tormented by impure spirits, and all of them were healed.

Anyway, it's all in our own perception. I personally haven't seen much come from door knocking, but some people like doing it.

If God told the guys to bring posterboards with images of flames from hell, then by all means do it. I personally believe more would come from sitting in their car and praying for the crowd instead of inciting a riot. There was no need for that. No one could ever induce me to feel that was an effective way to reach people for God.

I remember hearing it said that people need to see Jesus before they see the White Throne judgment. I've always agreed with that. Simply because, even when I've made mistakes and God has chastised me, He has already been kind.

[Tim Rutledge]

Over 90% of the homo's know that the Bible is against their lifestyle. We need wisdom more then anything when dealing with people.

I have not seen very many gays delivered from homosexuality. Maybe a few that lasted a little while. But sadly they transgress.

Being "nice" towards gays does not work either, as far as getting them to repent.

I don't know the answer totally but I know gays and effeminate people should not feel comfortable in a red hot apostolic church service. & I would hope pastors and leaders are prepared to lose their tax status and possibly worse.

[houston]

Originally Posted by Tim Rutledge

Over 90% of the homo's know that the Bible is against their lifestyle. We need wisdom more then anything when dealing with people.

The homo's. Yes, that will reach "them." Where did you make up this statistic?

I have not seen very many gays delivered from homosexuality. Maybe a few that lasted a little while. But sadly they transgress.

I do not disagree here. I believe that there are many who struggle with SSA who are married and raising families. Transgress or regress?

Being "nice" towards gays does not work either, as far as getting them to repent.

Not sure what you mean by this.

I don't know the answer totally but I know gays and effeminate people should not feel comfortable in a red hot apostolic church service. & I would hope pastors and leaders are prepared to lose their tax status and possibly worse.

I am very comfortable in red hot hype services.

[kclee4jc]

Originally Posted by Tim Rutledge

Over 90% of the homo's know that the Bible is against their lifestyle. We need wisdom more then anything when dealing with people.

I have not seen very many gays delivered from homosexuality. Maybe a few that lasted a little while. But sadly they transgress.

Being "nice" towards gays does not work either, as far as getting them to repent.

I don't know the answer totally but I know gays and effeminate people should not feel comfortable in a red hot apostolic church service. & I would hope pastors and leaders are prepared to lose their tax status and possibly worse.

Let's present a scenerio Brother Rutledge.

A faithful young man comes to you and says it is his earnest desire to live for God in holiness. He knows that the homosexual lifestyle is wrong (as you already stated that many do), yet he struggles with same sex attraction. He wants to live for God and be sexually pure but has no desire to be with a woman. He has sought the Lord for deliverance but has not received the deliverance he had hoped for.

What would you say to him?

Does he have to be "heterosexual" to be pleasing to God?

Is it appropriate for men of God to get up and rant about "them fags" when there are sincere people who want to live for God but struggle with SSA?

I'm fully Apostolic and believe that the homosexual lifestyle is sin and is very dstructive to the plan of God, yet I think it is time for the Apostolic movement (even more so our very own conservative Apostolic Movement) to step back and prayerfully examine our approach to this issue. I'm not talking about comprimise...I'm talking about approach.

[kclee4jc]

And to address the main point of this thread, I would not hesitate to face imprisonment for preaching against the sin and dangers of the homosexual lifestyle.

[Nitehawk013]

I have a hard time believing anyone stands in the pulpit and calls anyone "them fags" or homos. If that is a regular occurrance then maybe find another church because that preacher has lost it.

[kclee4jc]

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013

I have a hard time believing anyone stands in the pulpit and calls anyone "them fags" or homos. If that is a regular occurrance then maybe find another church because that preacher has lost it.

I've heard it quite a few times at conferences. I respect these men of God in other areas...but strongly disagree with their approach on this issue.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I remember hearing it said that people need to see Jesus before they see the White Throne judgment. I've always agreed with that. Simply because, even when I've made mistakes and God has chastised me, He has already been kind.

People can't see Jesus properly unless they see Him as Saviour. Saviour from what? That White throne Judgement.