Violent Islam

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Let's discuss the France issue

The term social apartheid has also been used to explain and describe the ghettoization of Muslim immigrants to Europe in impoverished suburbs[6] and as a cause of rioting and other violence. A notable case is the social situation in the French suburbs, in which largely impoverished Muslim immigrants being concentrated in particular housing projects, and being provided with an inferior standard of infrastructure and social services. The issue of urban apartheid in France was highlighted as such in the aftermath of the 2005 civil unrest in France

So who practices segregation again? What are those people supposed to do?

You REALLY should find the english version of the book "Ghetto Urbaine", read it, then get back to me on "Muslim segregation" in France.

http://www.franceculture.fr/oeuvre-g...peyronnie.html

So you were saying what about Pakistan? Wow you found a Muslim country with a higher murder rate than the US. Their murder rate is 6.81, higher than the US 5.22. Why?

3 guesses where the drugs get CONSUMED homey. Difference between Pakistan and Muslim countries where there are no drugs and crime rates / murder rates are low:

CHURCHES and CHRISTIANS

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...es_in_Pakistan

Worldwide - it is the same everywhere lol. You speak of the peacefulness of christianity and the wonderful effect of christianity on society yet nowhere on the planet can you demonstrate that any place where christians are the majority is more peaceful or lawful than any place where they are not.

See what I mean? Radical Islam is spreading. Sharia Law is already being implemented in the UK, Germany and other European nations. Instead of dealing with it politicians bury their heads and so called "Moderate" Muslims try to change the topic instead of dealing with it. Here, once again, he confuses RELIGION with a Nation. The US nor France nor the UK nor Germany is a Christian nation. They are secular nations and Crime, as I have shown already, exists in many Islamic nations or it simply isn't illegal (or goes unreported)

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

See what I mean? Radical Islam is spreading. Sharia Law is already being implemented in the UK, Germany and other European nations. Instead of dealing with it politicians bury their heads and so called "Moderate" Muslims try to change the topic instead of dealing with it. Here, once again, he confuses RELIGION with a Nation. The US nor France nor the UK nor Germany is a Christian nation. They are secular nations and Crime, as I have shown already, exists in many Islamic nations or it simply isn't illegal (or goes unreported)

Instead of dealing with it politicians bury their heads and so called "Moderate" Muslims try to change the topic instead of dealing with it

You not I brought up France and the majority Islamic French ghettos.

When I pointed out that there is a study and book (not written by a Muslim author) indicating that French Muslims are deliberately concentrated and walled off into these ghettos BY non-Muslims in answer to your claim that French Muslims somehow "practice discrimmination" it is you who have now changed the topic.

Otherwise it is humorous that there is a real correlation between the christian percentages in Muslim countries and their crime/murder rates. The rates increase with christian populations, not Muslim populations. It must be because the Muslims are so violent huh.

Crime, murder, war, and violence may always be found and will always originate where christians are found. These follow hand in hand. When Isaiah wrote of a "prince of peace" he was DEFINITELY not speaking of anything you know or believe in.

The Quran on unbelievers: MISSING: VIOLENT ACTS TOWARDS UNBELIEVERS

Say: O ye that reject Faith! I worship not that which ye worship, nor will ye worship that which I worship. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, nor will ye worship that which I worship. To you be your Way, and to me mine. (109:1-6)

So leave them alone until they encounter that Day of theirs, wherein they shall (perforce) swoon (with terror). (52:45)

And have patience with what they say, and leave them with noble (dignity). And leave Me (alone to deal with) those in possession of the good things of life, who (yet) deny the Truth; and bear with them for a little while. (73:10-11)

Let there be no compulsion in religion. (2:256)

Those who reject Our signs, We shall gradually visit with punishment, in ways they perceive not. (7:182)

Say, "The truth is from your Lord": Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it): for the wrong-doers We have prepared a Fire whose (smoke and flames), like the walls and roof of a tent, will hem them in: if they implore relief they will be granted water like melted brass, that will scald their faces, how dreadful the drink! How uncomfortable a couch to recline on! (18:29)

But those who reject (Allah) [Pickthal and others: "disbelieve"] - for them will be the Fire of Hell: No term shall be determined for them, so they should die, nor shall its Penalty be lightened for them. Thus do We reward every ungrateful one! (35:36)

Seest thou not those that dispute concerning the Signs of Allah? How are they turned away (from Reality)? - Those who reject the Book and the (revelations) with which We sent our messengers: but soon shall they know, - When the yokes (shall be) round their necks, and the chains; they shall be dragged along - In the boiling fetid fluid: then in the Fire shall they be burned. (40:69-72)

But We will certainly give the Unbelievers a taste of a severe Penalty, and We will requite them for the worst of their deeds. Such is the requital of the enemies of Allah,- the Fire: therein will be for them the Eternal Home: a (fit) requital, for that they were wont to reject Our Signs. (41:27-28)

For those who reject [Pickthal: "disbelieve"] their Lord (and Cherisher) is the Penalty of Hell: and evil is (such) destination. (67:6)

Then leave Me alone with such as reject this Message: by degrees shall We punish them from directions they perceive not. (68:44)

Verily, We have warned you of a Penalty near, the Day when man will see (the deeds) which his hands have sent forth, and the Unbeliever will say, "Woe unto me! Would that I were (mere) dust!" (78:040)

What then is the matter with them, that they believe not? And when the Qur'an is read to them, they fall not prostrate, but on the contrary the Unbelievers reject (it). But Allah has full knowledge of what they secrete (in their breasts). So announce to them a Penalty Grievous, except to those who believe and work righteous deeds: for them is a Reward that will never fail. (84:20-25)

But if any turn away and reject Allah, [Pickthal: "But whoso is averse and disbelieveth"] - Allah will punish him with a mighty Punishment. (88: 23-24)

Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures. (98:6)

But those who reject Faith and belie Our Signs, they shall be companions of the Fire; they shall abide therein. (2:39)

Miserable is the price for which they have sold their souls, in that they deny (the revelation) which Allah has sent down, in insolent envy that Allah of His Grace should send it to any of His servants He pleases: Thus have they drawn on themselves Wrath upon Wrath. And humiliating is the punishment of those who reject Faith. (2:90)

(Yea), and such as reject Faith, - for a while will I grant them their pleasure, but will soon drive them to the torment of Fire, - an evil destination (indeed)! (2:126)

Those who reject Faith, and die rejecting, - on them is Allah's curse, and the curse of angels, and of all mankind. They will abide therein: Their penalty will not be lightened, nor will respite be their (lot). (2:161-162)

Allah is the Protector of those who have faith: from the depths of darkness He will lead them forth into light. Of those who reject faith the patrons are the evil ones: from light they will lead them forth into the depths of darkness. They will be companions of the fire, to dwell therein (For ever). (2:257)

Those who reject Faith, - neither their possessions nor their (numerous) progeny will avail them aught against Allah: They are themselves but fuel for the Fire. (3:10)

Say to those who reject Faith: "Soon will ye be vanquished and gathered together to Hell, - an evil bed indeed (to lie on)! (3:12)

As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help. (3:56)

If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good). (3:85)

As to those who reject Faith, and die rejecting [Pickthal: "those who disbelieve, and die in disbelief"], - never would be accepted from any such as much gold as the earth contains, though they should offer it for ransom. For such is (in store) a penalty grievous, and they will find no helpers. (3:91)

Those who reject Faith, - neither their possessions nor their (numerous) progeny will avail them aught against Allah: They will be companions of the Fire, -dwelling therein (for ever). (3:116)

Fear the Fire, which is prepared for those who reject Faith [Pickthal: "disbelievers"]. (3:131)

Those who reject our Signs, We shall soon cast into the Fire: as often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for fresh skins, that they may taste the penalty: for Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise. (4:56)

Those who reject faith and deny our signs [Pickthal: "And they who disbelieve and deny Our revelations"] will be companions of Hell-fire. (5:10)

As to those who reject Faith, - if they had everything on earth, and twice repeated, to give as ransom for the penalty of the Day of Judgment, it would never be accepted of them, theirs would be a grievous penalty. (5:36)

But those who reject Faith and belie our Signs, - they shall be companions of Hell-fire. (5:86)

And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage, - that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith [Pickthal and others: "disbelieve"]. (9:3)

And for those who reject Faith and deny our Signs, there will be a humiliating Punishment. (22:57)

And if any believe not in Allah and His Messenger, We have prepared, for those who reject Allah, a Blazing Fire! (48:13)

And those who believe in Allah and His messengers - they are the Sincere (lovers of Truth), and the witnesses (who testify), in the eyes of their Lord: They shall have their Reward and their Light. But those who reject Allah and deny Our Signs, - they are the Companions of Hell-Fire. (57:19)

But those who reject Faith and treat Our Signs as falsehoods, they will be Companions of the Fire, to dwell therein for aye: and evil is that Goal. (64:10)

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Instead of dealing with it politicians bury their heads and so called "Moderate" Muslims try to change the topic instead of dealing with it

You not I brought up France and the majority Islamic French ghettos.

Actually you did. You introduced France and Crime rates, the issue was how Muslims there created no go places for non- Muslims. You claimed it was to reduce Crime but that is not true.

Second since YOU raised the issue of France and Crime, not me, I pointed out many of those crimes are committed by Muslims, now you've got another excuse and all the while not one shred of evidence you post exonerates Islam of being a violent religion...misdirecting to secular nations is a red herring

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Actually you did. You introduced France and Crime rates, the issue was how Muslims there created no go places for non- Muslims. You claimed it was to reduce Crime but that is not true.

Second since YOU raised the issue of France and Crime, not me, I pointed out many of those crimes are committed by Muslims, now you've got another excuse and all the while not one shred of evidence you post exonerates Islam of being a violent religion...misdirecting to secular nations is a red herring

It is a 'red herring' only if you believe you can separate the self-identified views of the people in these "secular" nations from the actions of the people who proport to have these views.

Otherwise, the numbers say that the residents of nations who identify themselves as majority christians engage, as I have said all along, in a statistically higher level of crime, violence, and murder than those who identify themselves as majority Muslims. It is not the religion after all who commits these acts it is the people who follow it.

As to bringing in the situation in France you should at least review previous posts as I said nothing of France or any other European country. I will help you review

(4) of the top 20 countries rated by safety/crime index are Muslim countries. The US of course rates lower than Kazakhstan, Algeria, Egypt, Azerbaijan, Tunisia, Morroco, Indonesia, Turkey, Saudi, Brunei, Kuwait, UAE, and Qatar.

Compared to the US at 5.22 which is higher than Somalia (3.25 and Kenya 3.65 and Yemen 3.97) the Muslim countries of Oman (.65), Saudi (.85), UAE (.92) enjoy rates at a fraction of the US rates. The really red countries (Honduras 60.87, Guatemala 45.17) could only reach these wonderful achievements with the help and values of the beliefs of the people who live there

The people who live in Latin America report themselves to be 83% associated with the christian faith and their murder rates are 71X (710% higher) than the murder rates in Saudi Arabia, the most strict and conservative Muslim country? How can this be?

So unless you are claiming that somehow the GOVERNMENT of these countries commits these street crimes then this statistical difference is ONLY applicable to the beliefs of the people who do commit them and the form of government has nothing to do with it.

Is this your claim? "The secular Government of Honduras (murder rate 60.87) and the secular Government of Guatemala (murder rate 45.17) is responsible for these murder rates and the fact that the people who commit them, who are 83% christian, are victimized by their secular government"? I say if this is your claim then your claim is bunk and it is the mention of the secular government and downplay of the beliefs of the people who live there that is the red herring.

If, as you say, ISLAM is the most violent religion on earth why are the actions of the individual people in nations who have a majority of Muslims overwhelmingly less violent than the actions of the individual people in nations who have a majority of christians? Can you explain this? With actual publicly accepted data? No more red herrings from you LOL.

According to the American Religious Identification Survey (ARIS) (2008) 76% of the American adult population identified themselves as Christians

The murder rate in the US is 614% higher than the murder rate in Saudi Arabia. Is the "secular government" committing these murders Prax? Nah, they're randomly droning the odd American who misbehaves overseas but certainly not responsible for the murder rates between the coasts. Those are committed by people who believe in and have a much higher level of tolerance for crime and violence around them than Muslims do.

[Pliny]

More evidence from the "religion of peace":

"Fifty-five-year old Pastor Patras was arrested in October 2012, for allegedly speaking out against the Islamic ritual of sacrifice. On the day of his arrest, Pastor Patras was invited to address a funeral gathering in a nearby village in Sheikhupura. He addressed the gathering at the bereaved family’s home by sharing Jesus Christ’s sacrificial death and resurrection. After delivering the sermon, Pastor Patras went back to his home. A few hours later, the police arrived and arrested him. The pastor did not understand why he had been arrested. He was told that a Muslim man had accused him of speaking against Islam, specifically the Islamic ritual of sacrifice, during his sermon at the funeral. After Pastor Patras’ arrest, a mob of Muslim men surrounded the police station and demanded that he be handed over to them, but Pastor Patras had already been transferred to another location by that time. When the mob could not take hold of the pastor, the local Muslims told his family to leave the village or they would be set on fire."
http://aclj.org/united-nations/victo...se-in-pakistan

Fortunately the ACLJ was successful in defending this pastor from the legal system if not the violent muslims...

[Pliny]

What happens within an Islamic Republic

http://savesaeed.org/




Please consider signing the petition to free this man.
http://aclj.org/iran/save-american-p...rison-sentence

[seekerman]

This really isn't hard folks, it's very very simple.. Take a map. Find the areas with the highest incidents of *RELIGIOUS* violence. It will be overwhelmingly Islamic areas.

Thousands of men, women and children have died and are dying, oppressed and living in religious fear, because the sunni muslims kill and attack the shia muslims and the shia muslims attack the sunni muslims. Muslims, be it sunni or shia attack other Islamic sects and non-muslims. Islam is one big cesspool of RELIGIOUS violence.

Islam is the most violent RELIGION on the face of the earth today.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by seekerman

This really isn't hard folks, it's very very simple.. Take a map. Find the areas with the highest incidents of *RELIGIOUS* violence. It will be overwhelmingly Islamic areas.

Thousands of men, women and children have died and are dying, oppressed and living in religious fear, because the sunni muslims kill and attack the shia muslims and the shia muslims attack the sunni muslims. Muslims, be it sunni or shia attack other Islamic sects and non-muslims. Islam is one big cesspool of RELIGIOUS violence.

Islam is the most violent RELIGION on the face of the earth today.

We all know you believe this. Your beliefs are firm and fixed and we also know that you have never, ever in your life stepped foot in a Muslim country nor do you know any Muslims nor have you ever been to a Mosque and directly asked them what they believe. This of course makes you, in your own mind, a self-professed expert on the subject.

You never saw a bigoted, opinionated, stubborn, narrow-minded, self-conceited, almighty mean man in your life but he had stuck in one place since he was born and thought God made the world and dyspepsia and bile for his especial comfort and satisfaction.

Mark Twain - The American Abroad speech, 1868

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Pliny

More evidence from the "religion of peace":

"Fifty-five-year old Pastor Patras was arrested in October 2012, for allegedly speaking out against the Islamic ritual of sacrifice. On the day of his arrest, Pastor Patras was invited to address a funeral gathering in a nearby village in Sheikhupura. He addressed the gathering at the bereaved family’s home by sharing Jesus Christ’s sacrificial death and resurrection. After delivering the sermon, Pastor Patras went back to his home. A few hours later, the police arrived and arrested him. The pastor did not understand why he had been arrested. He was told that a Muslim man had accused him of speaking against Islam, specifically the Islamic ritual of sacrifice, during his sermon at the funeral. After Pastor Patras’ arrest, a mob of Muslim men surrounded the police station and demanded that he be handed over to them, but Pastor Patras had already been transferred to another location by that time. When the mob could not take hold of the pastor, the local Muslims told his family to leave the village or they would be set on fire."
http://aclj.org/united-nations/victo...se-in-pakistan

Fortunately the ACLJ was successful in defending this pastor from the legal system if not the violent muslims...

No, christians are probably not welcome in Pakistan.

Missionaries accompanied colonizing forces from Portugal, France, and Great Britain. Christianity was mainly brought by the British rulers of India in the later 18th and 19th century. This is evidenced in cities established by the British, such as the port city of Karachi, where the majestic St. Patrick's Cathedral, Pakistan's largest church stands, and the churches in the city of Rawalpindi, where the British established a major military cantonment. All of the modern Christians in Pakistan are descended from converts from during British rule

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

It is a 'red herring' only if you believe you can separate the self-identified views of the people in these "secular" nations from the actions of the people who proport to have these views.

Its a red herring because the topic is Islam not national crime rates. "You too" is not a valid defense.

People in America aren't killing in the name of Jesus. The don't shout "God is great" before robbing a liquor store.