Newborns & Children go to hell?! What does the Bib

[Esaias]

Well then, I guess wicked people should NOT be punished for their crimes, eh?

I suppose you support abolishing all criminal punishments for criminals?

[Shawn]

aren't most punishments correctional. Hopefully there effects are long lasting(eternal even).

[MarcBee]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Well then, I guess wicked people should NOT be punished for their crimes, eh?

I suppose you support abolishing all criminal punishments for criminals?

There's a significant difference between eternal torture vs. a punishment commensurate with the crime. In your god's economy, the smallest sin (a finite incident) is worthy of an infinite, eternal damnation. That's not a "punishment" derived from a sense of justice, but is rather a psychotic behavior. The supposed "escape route," which I'm sure you should invoke, does not obviate the fact that the smallest sin does MERIT the eternal wrath of god. (James 2:10.) And this is all "justice" to the Christian mind--at least to one that believes, rather than spins the bible.

[Antipas]

Much of the talk about "Hell" in the Bible may very well be hyperbole. For example...


Matthew 5:29
And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Jesus isn't literally saying that we should maim ourselves to ensure that we are saved. It's a calculated exaggeration. Hyperbole is defined as being:


hy·per·bo·le

[ hī púrbəlee ]
1.exaggeration: deliberate and obvious exaggeration used for effect, e.g. "I could eat a million of these"

When Jesus spoke of Hell, Jesus described a place where the punishment fits the crime and where the punishment eventually ends:


Luke 12:47-48
And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

A literal approach to the Bible will create the most brutal of religions. When will we realize that "religion" is man's literalist attempt to interpret a spiritual divine revelation?

[Antipas]

Indeed, a mere moment in hell is forever to the wicked.

[NewbieMisfits]

[QUOTE=Antipas;1261049]Much of the talk about "Hell" in the Bible may very well be hyperbole. For example...


Matthew 5:29
And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.


When Jesus spoke of Hell, Jesus described a place where the punishment fits the crime and where the punishment eventually ends:


^^^ Now if you could pull clear scripture on this then one would assume that if a sinful infant went didn't go to heaven, he would..... well not be facing eternal damnation....

[Antipas]

[QUOTE=NewbieMisfits;1261052]

Originally Posted by Antipas

Much of the talk about "Hell" in the Bible may very well be hyperbole. For example...


Matthew 5:29
And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.


When Jesus spoke of Hell, Jesus described a place where the punishment fits the crime and where the punishment eventually ends:


^^^ Now if you could pull clear scripture on this then one would assume that if a sinful infant went didn't go to heaven, he would..... well not be facing eternal damnation....

I did. Let's look at it again...

Luke 12:47-48
And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Let's look CLOSELY at this verse and consider it's implications. First, those who know God's will and don't do it are punished with greater punishment than those who don't know God's will and didn't do it. This establishes varying degrees of punishment. Time fits the crime with relation to knowledge of God's will.

Also, if we're talking "lake of fire" an eternity in the lake of fire is an eternity in the lake of fire. There is no variation. BUT... if one's "part" in the lake of fire is temporary... then you have greater and lesser torments. In short, if both are beaten with stripes forever there can be no degrees of many vs. few. For this relative relationship to exist the beatings must end; some before others.

Christ's teaching in this text would demand a universalist approach when harmonized with the whole of Scripture. This text assails the righteous justice of God.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by MarcBee

Matthew 25:41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, "Depart from me you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:"

(Nice touch here--an omniscient, omnipotent god didn't really *want* hell to be used for humans, but it just worked out that way none the less.)

Mat 25:46 "and these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Matthew 23:33 "Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell?"

[In movie True Lies, Jamie Lee Curtis asks Ahnold, "So did you kill anyone today?"
Ahnold: "Yes but they were ALL BAD."]

Mark 9:47 "And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire, where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched."

Jesus speaks to his church in Thyatira,
Rev. 2:23 ..."I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts...

(The above not necessarily eternal, but seems fairly violent, especially the kill with death part.)

No, the Bible God is not like Hitler. Hitler never had the ability to torture and/or kill 1/3 of the population of the earth, as claimed here,
Rev 9:15 So the four angels, who had been prepared for the hour and day and month and year, were released to kill a third of mankind.

And Hitler never had the power to so accurately measure how much blood he had spilled.
Rev. 14:19 So the angel thrust his sickle into the earth and gathered the vine of the earth, and threw it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20 And the winepress was trampled outside the city, and blood came out of the winepress, up to the horses' bridles, for one thousand six hundred furlongs.

Matthew 10:28
"and do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
--J.C.

None of these specifies though the question about children

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Shawn

aren't most punishments correctional. Hopefully there effects are long lasting(eternal even).

Are they? Or are they intended as preventatives? Either way neither really works well

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Antipas

Much of the talk about "Hell" in the Bible may very well be hyperbole. For example...


Matthew 5:29
And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Jesus isn't literally saying that we should maim ourselves to ensure that we are saved. It's a calculated exaggeration. Hyperbole is defined as being:


hy·per·bo·le

[ hī púrbəlee ]
1.exaggeration: deliberate and obvious exaggeration used for effect, e.g. "I could eat a million of these"

When Jesus spoke of Hell, Jesus described a place where the punishment fits the crime and where the punishment eventually ends:


Luke 12:47-48
And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

A literal approach to the Bible will create the most brutal of religions. When will we realize that "religion" is man's literalist attempt to interpret a spiritual divine revelation?

The hyperbole is meant to teach how bad it is to go to hell not that there isn't really a hell.

How are you getting the punishment will end from Luke?