An Apostolic Approach to Scripture

[larrylyates]

Originally Posted by A.W. Bowman

I think I might have posted something like this a couple of years ago - I don't remember. Age I guess.

Anyway, now for the hard question:

Gentlemen, how many of the universal instructions (commandments) that Jesus gave to His disciples do we know, understand, and observe to do - and teach others the same?

I must admit that I did not score well on this quiz. Now I am working harder to learn and to do. /sigh/

But, I now see a difference in being 'apostolic' from a modern day view point, and being a disciple of Christ from an historical perspective. It is the difference between trying to get everything 'right' so as to gain the approval of men, and living and walking in the Spirit in order to gain the approval of God.

The hard part is wiping the slate clean of all of the doctrines of men and learning how to actually study the Bible for what it says in spite of what men have made it out to say, in order to support their personal agendas and 'good' religious ideas. It also requires us to step away from all of the social and religious trappings of the modern church performances (trappings and rituals) and seek the simplicity of living our lives according to God's precepts - not our own.

Ah, the difference between conformity and unity. So often we strive for congregational conformity (dress, words, actions, etc.) and call it unity, and then wonder why yet another church/organization splits. Truly, today Christ is divided. The sad part is the body of Christ has been plagued with these same kinds of problems from the very start, and that explains why Paul had to write so many letters of correction. The problems are not new, they just look different.

So, what is the solution? As starters, my recommendations are these: Flock to leaders who teach the word of God - as He intended for it to be taught, rather than listening to those who simply preach about the word. Follow after those who encourage each individual to take responsibility for their own salvation and not to rely on church dogma or pastoral edicts. Find leadership that guides others toward spiritual maturity rather than spiritual dependance. Find those who point everyone toward Christ, Himself, and then gets out of the way.

As one preacher stated so well, "If Jesus came back today He would not cleanse the Temple, He would cleanse the pulpit."

Both of your posts give me pause to reflect on my own thoughts and attitudes. I am afraid that I fall far short of the mark. I thank you for your insight and welcome your addition to these pages. May you be blessed in the Lord this day!

[A.W. Bowman]

Originally Posted by larrylyates

Both of your posts give me pause to reflect on my own thoughts and attitudes. I am afraid that I fall far short of the mark. I thank you for your insight and welcome your addition to these pages. May you be blessed in the Lord this day!

You do me honor.

Self examination from a biblical point of view is almost always an impossible exercise to undertake. Frankly, it scares me. It requires me to be honest with both God and myself. Almost every time I attempt to undertake such an examination I discover at least one more area of self deception, which is the most difficult deception to identify and by far the most difficult to correct.

I really resist being told that I am 'wrong', even if the correction comes from myself, more so if it comes from others, and especially if the correction comes from God. It hurts my pride and destroys my self image. My first reaction is usually anger, not repentance. /sigh/

Any way, I hope that my reflections may encourage some folks to revisit the scriptures, and to say to themselves, "What does this chapter actually teach, and what is there (if anything) in it that I should be applying to my life, and how should I do it?"

Musings from an old mountain man.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by A.W. Bowman

I think I might have posted something like this a couple of years ago - I don't remember. Age I guess.

Anyway, now for the hard question:

Gentlemen, how many of the universal instructions (commandments) that Jesus gave to His disciples do we know, understand, and observe to do - and teach others the same?

I must admit that I did not score well on this quiz. Now I am working harder to learn and to do. /sigh/

But, I now see a difference in being 'apostolic' from a modern day view point, and being a disciple of Christ from an historical perspective. It is the difference between trying to get everything 'right' so as to gain the approval of men, and living and walking in the Spirit in order to gain the approval of God.

The hard part is wiping the slate clean of all of the doctrines of men and learning how to actually study the Bible for what it says in spite of what men have made it out to say, in order to support their personal agendas and 'good' religious ideas. It also requires us to step away from all of the social and religious trappings of the modern church performances (trappings and rituals) and seek the simplicity of living our lives according to God's precepts - not our own.

Ah, the difference between conformity and unity. So often we strive for congregational conformity (dress, words, actions, etc.) and call it unity, and then wonder why yet another church/organization splits. Truly, today Christ is divided. The sad part is the body of Christ has been plagued with these same kinds of problems from the very start, and that explains why Paul had to write so many letters of correction. The problems are not new, they just look different.

So, what is the solution? As starters, my recommendations are these: Flock to leaders who teach the word of God - as He intended for it to be taught, rather than listening to those who simply preach about the word. Follow after those who encourage each individual to take responsibility for their own salvation and not to rely on church dogma or pastoral edicts. Find leadership that guides others toward spiritual maturity rather than spiritual dependance. Find those who point everyone toward Christ, Himself, and then gets out of the way.

As one preacher stated so well, "If Jesus came back today He would not cleanse the Temple, He would cleanse the pulpit."

I think Jesus would say 'what is a pulpit'? 'What are altars?'. 'What are these buildings you call churches'?

Jesus would be very disappointed with how His people have perverted His Church over the past 2000, IMO.

[stephenroehm]

Originally Posted by seekerman

I think Jesus would say 'what is a pulpit'? 'What are altars?'. 'What are these buildings you call churches'?

Jesus would be very disappointed with how His people have perverted His Church over the past 2000, IMO.

I think Jesus is a lot more concerned about the conditions of our hearts than the buildings we congregate in.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by A.W. Bowman

I think I might have posted something like this a couple of years ago - I don't remember. Age I guess.

Anyway, now for the hard question:

Gentlemen, how many of the universal instructions (commandments) that Jesus gave to His disciples do we know, understand, and observe to do - and teach others the same? I must admit that I did not score well on this quiz. Now I am working harder to learn and to do. /sigh/

Bro. Bowman, It's been a while, but just wanted you to know I'm a sister

To answer your question, about the commandments that Jesus gave to His disciples, it is something that I strive to do, asking the Spirit of the Lord to correct me, and teach me while I study.

Originally Posted by A.W. Bowman

But, I now see a difference in being 'apostolic' from a modern day view point, and being a disciple of Christ from an historical perspective. It is the difference between trying to get everything 'right' so as to gain the approval of men, and living and walking in the Spirit in order to gain the approval of God.

The hard part is wiping the slate clean of all of the doctrines of men and learning how to actually study the Bible for what it says in spite of what men have made it out to say, in order to support their personal agendas and 'good' religious ideas. It also requires us to step away from all of the social and religious trappings of the modern church performances (trappings and rituals) and seek the simplicity of living our lives according to God's precepts - not our own.

Ah, the difference between conformity and unity. So often we strive for congregational conformity (dress, words, actions, etc.) and call it unity, and then wonder why yet another church/organization splits. Truly, today Christ is divided. The sad part is the body of Christ has been plagued with these same kinds of problems from the very start, and that explains why Paul had to write so many letters of correction. The problems are not new, they just look different.

That is why we must be led by both the Word and the Spirit.

Jesus said in John 4:23-24 "But the hour cometh and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth; for the Father seeketh such to worship Him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."

If we only try to understand the letter of the word, we will be frustrated. If we only try to walk in the "spirit" and never read the word, we will be frustrated.

But if we truly want to walk as Jesus desired us to, in spirit and in truth, we must be led by both the spirit and the truth (word).

Originally Posted by A.W. Bowman

So, what is the solution? As starters, my recommendations are these: Flock to leaders who teach the word of God - as He intended for it to be taught, rather than listening to those who simply preach about the word. Follow after those who encourage each individual to take responsibility for their own salvation and not to rely on church dogma or pastoral edicts. Find leadership that guides others toward spiritual maturity rather than spiritual dependance. Find those who point everyone toward Christ, Himself, and then gets out of the way.

As one preacher stated so well, "If Jesus came back today He would not cleanse the Temple, He would cleanse the pulpit."

It is hard to find elders who preach the truth of the word without adding men's doctrines to the word.

I would love to find and study under someone who point souls to Christ, and then moves out of the way. I would feel blessed beyond measure to find such a one.

Unfortunately, not once in my life have I had a man teaching the word who didn't try to act almost as a "mediator" between God and man when teaching the Word, while lifting themselves up in the process, every time.

The church needs men who are willing teach the word, point souls to Christ, love souls, and reject any attempt to be put on a pedestal in order to truly be a servant of Jesus.

That doesn't mean they aren't out there, of course... it's just that I haven't found any. My husband is my spiritual head, and he is the one I lean on the most for my spiritual direction, and I do believe that is absolutely biblical too.

I know that we need the five-fold ministry... but find it sadly lacking in modern day churches.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by seekerman

I think Jesus would say 'what is a pulpit'? 'What are altars?'. 'What are these buildings you call churches'?

Jesus would be very disappointed with how His people have perverted His Church over the past 2000, IMO.

The early church had its problems, just as our churches today have problems. Most of Paul's letters were written addressing problems and dysfunctions in the church. Jesus knew all this would happen.... and Paul knew it too.

Paul warned of the false prophets that were coming after his death. He said in one place, I've warned you day and night with tears about the coming days. The early church had many troubles. Things went smoothly for the first little bit, but then ... remember Ananias and Sapphira, and then the next incident was the Greek widows complaining that the Hebrew widows were getting more attention than they... the list continues onward.

No, the problems we face today are not really different than in the early church. If you really believe that, read Revelation 3 and 4, and then come back and tell me how are we different from them? The church of Laodicea could be the church of America today.

Originally Posted by stephenroehm

I think Jesus is a lot more concerned about the conditions of our hearts than the buildings we congregate in.

And that my friend, I believe is the hammer hitting the nail on the head! Jesus was always more concerned and dealt most often with heart issues, and condemned those who looked on the outward appearances as a sign of holiness.

[A.W. Bowman]

Sorry for the delay - been busy - again! LOLOL

KBTW (easier than all of the typing, which I just did. :-)

Love your posts!

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by A.W. Bowman

Sorry for the delay - been busy - again! LOLOL

KBTW (easier than all of the typing, which I just did. :-)

Love your posts!

Thank you Bro. Have been quite busy myself