Same God or different God?

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by Jay

Ishmael was not the father of Islam. That was Mohammed and no one else.

I'm not sure the point there-
-you discount that Ishmael
is considered a father figure
in Islam to what end?

[Jay]

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

I'm not sure the point there-
-you discount that Ishmael
is considered a father figure
in Islam to what end?

The sheer evidence of history is against him being the founder of Islam. I know that they claim him (as he was a son of Abraham, but then Abraham also had many other sons aside from Ishmael and Isaac). The truth is that Islam was created by Mohammed in a very similar fashion to the creation of Mormonism by Josef Smith.

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by Jay

The sheer evidence of history is against him being the founder of Islam. I know that they claim him (as he was a son of Abraham, but then Abraham also had many other sons aside from Ishmael and Isaac). The truth is that Islam was created by Mohammed in a very similar fashion to the creation of Mormonism by Josef Smith.

I see vast differences, and suspected that this
exclusion of Ishmael as a father in Islam
was to disconnect them from the Bible.

Ishmael's story is the story of
the beginnings of Islam, regardless
of whether he is Islam's prophet or not.

How many other sons that had done
nothing wrong did Abraham reject, again?

[Jay]

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

I see vast differences, and suspected that this
exclusion of Ishmael as a father in Islam
was to disconnect them from the Bible.

Ishmael's story is the story of
the beginnings of Islam, regardless
of whether he is Islam's prophet or not.

How many other sons that had done
nothing wrong did Abraham reject, again?

There would be documentation outside of the Islamic tradition to support the claims of the Koran if Ishmael started the Moslem religion. The problem is that there is nothing to support this. All evidence, even within Islam, states that it was revealed to Mohammed that all of this occurred. The Old Testament is older than Islam, as is Christianity. If Islam were the older yet, there would have been the documentation to back its claims. However, the evidence is not there.

[Walks_in_islam]

Hm I am thinking that I wasnt actually preaching or battling nor is there anything to win or lose.

What a vivid imagination.

I was in Amsterdam in Feb. Do they also window-dress the storefronts with skanks and smoke dope all night in Dordrecht?

Idly thinking that this might explain the vividity of the above imagination.

Originally Posted by Dordrecht

You have no clue what you are talking about.
But since you are at a loss (and others might want to know), I will tell you what "Dordrecht" stands for.
It's the oldest city in the Netherlands which happens to me my hometown.

So, now you can go back preaching about your false demonic cult designed by satan to fight the living God. A battle that you will not win.

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by Jay

There would be documentation outside of the Islamic tradition to support the claims of the Koran if Ishmael started the Moslem religion. The problem is that there is nothing to support this. All evidence, even within Islam, states that it was revealed to Mohammed that all of this occurred. The Old Testament is older than Islam, as is Christianity. If Islam were the older yet, there would have been the documentation to back its claims. However, the evidence is not there.

My understanding is it is Pentateuch based?
But I haven't researched this.
That's how it reads.

[Dordrecht]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Hm I am thinking that I wasnt actually preaching or battling nor is there anything to win or lose.

What a vivid imagination.

I was in Amsterdam in Feb. Do they also window-dress the storefronts with skanks and smoke dope all night in Dordrecht?

Idly thinking that this might explain the vividity of the above imagination.

My last post in this thread:

Leave the presence of a fool, for there you do not meet words of knowledge

[Walks_in_islam]

Some of it references individuals from the Pentateuch by their name and message. The prophets / messengers / aka "warners" in the Quran are listed as:

Adam
Enoch
Noah
Hud (warned the people of Ad of upcoming judgement unless they turned to God, not mentioned in the bible)
Saleh (warned the people of Thamud of upcoming judgement unless they turned to God, not mentioned in the bible)
Abraham
Ishmael
Isaac
Lot
Jacob
Joseph
Shu'aib (warned the people of Midian of upcoming judgement unless they turned to God, not mentioned in the bible)
Job
Moses
Aaron
Ezekiel
David
Solomon
Elias
Elisha
Jonah
Zechariah
John (the baptist I believe)
Jesus
Muhammad

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

My understanding is it is Pentateuch based?
But I haven't researched this.
That's how it reads.

[Walks_in_islam]

"A good retreat is better than a bad stand"

Originally Posted by Dordrecht

My last post in this thread:

Leave the presence of a fool, for there you do not meet words of knowledge

[Walks_in_islam]

...a human body, dwelt in it, that body prayed....

To who?

This is who we pray to

Originally Posted by Jay

Again, you need to do more research before you make wild claims. There were only a very few if any books of the Bible that were not certain of being inspired by the time of Nicea. Within the first 30-50 years of church history (long predating the Nicean Council, all of the books of the Old Testament except for Esther, and all of the New Testament with the exception of II and III John and a bit of debate concerning Revelation were believed to be Scripture. There were a very few other texts that were considered, and some of them were included at Nicea even though there were doubts about them, and they were from the intertestamental period.


Further, I have never denied that there is absolutely one God. He created for himself a human body, dwelt in it, that body prayed, suffered, and died, whereupon three days later He rose from the dead under His own power, and then ascended into Heaven. You may deny the New Testament's authenticity, but then you undercut the Koran from which used it to claim that Christ was indeed a prophet of Allah.