That Christ has many names that you are unaware of,
and many there are who will say "Lord, Lord" on that day,
to be told "I never knew you."
All I know is that the man Jesus Christ testifies to be the only way:
John 10:7-18
Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
10The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
12But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
13The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
14I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
17Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
Now, you can pretend to have a corner on Christ,
there in your mortgaged house, and your mortgaged church,
and maybe you do actually give Him a nod, now and then,
in between the interminable voting, and sessions at the gun range--
No, I have no corner on Christ. But if Christ is revered, He will be believed regarding what He said about Himself. Many who say they love Jesus essentially laugh and call Him a liar regarding being the only way to the Father.
I have no mortgaged house... I'm a renter.
I have no mortgaged church... I'm a house churcher.
I have taken a stand for Jesus when my wife wanted to deny Him with an ungodly lifestyle... and lost everything... my marriage, my house, my Jeep, being a full time dad to my son, and living the dream. Jesus was worth it. So, I've given more than a nod.
I don't believe voting reflects one's religion. Many Christians vote for different reasons and issues on both sides of the political fense. Personally, I agree with Libertarians more than anyone.
And... I don't own a firearm.
Or you can take it as a sign that when you are asked about the matter,
your replies aren't real-life parables, but are merely rote; that nice-sounding
Scripture they taught you, and your father before you, in Sunday school.
Word of God. If not for the Bible... we'd no nothing about Jesus. Therefore, to toss out Scripture and all that has been written and said about it is to essentially toss out Jesus and make it up as you go.
Quote:
See that there are more ways than one to deny Christ, at least,
and surely, if you truly are a seeker, that Muslims don't need
any help with their eye-splinters.
Yes, there are many ways to deny Jesus. Islam is just one of many faiths that deny Christ's actual identity.
So, yes it's the same God, but they're getting it wrong?
First off, there is only ONE God (Jehovah). He created all things. Perhaps this scripture might help you:
Acts 17
22 Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.
23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
Acts 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
Timmy, notice that the gentiles in Acts 17 were "worshipping" the ONE God of the universe. But they were doing it in ignorance. They were using their own means to get to God. But Paul now came to declare to them that ONE true God...that they should repent and turn to Christ.
Now compare that to this: Rom 10:3For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
The Jews are doing exactly the same thing (like the Athenians of Acts 17). They being IGNORANT of God's RIGHTEOUSNESS establish their own righteousness. So they are to repent and turn to God via Christ.
So is it the same God? Yes. (There's only ONE God in the universe)
But is it ACCEPTABLE worship, NO! 1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
__________________
...Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ...(Acts 20:21)
There's only ONE God in the universe. So everyone who "worships" is worshipping that one God,
But here's the key:
1. Worshipping God in Spirit and in TRUTH is based on God's terms NOT man's terms.
2. God stipulates the condition by which man can approach to him.
3. Man cannot stipulate conditions by which he will approach God.
4. God's condition is the blood of Jesus Christ (1 Timothy 2:5).
5. Everything outside of faith in Christ in man's condtions.
__________________
...Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ...(Acts 20:21)
...But if Christ is revered, He will be believed regarding what He said about Himself. Many who say they love Jesus essentially laugh and call Him a liar regarding being the only way to the Father...
I know no Muslims who would laugh at Christ; I can provide examples of "Pastors" that essentially do so in their posts here. "The South will rise again," and worse. Ignorantly jeering about virgins. Yikes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila
...Word of God. If not for the Bible... we'd no nothing about Jesus. Therefore, to toss out Scripture and all that has been written and said about it is to essentially toss out Jesus and make it up as you go.
Amen; and to just toss out some memorized Scripture without personalizing it at all is a sign, to me, of the same thing. Doesn't mean it's always true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila
...Yes, there are many ways to deny Jesus. Islam is just one of many faiths that deny Christ's actual identity.
I am not so sure of this now, as I was. The Qur'an says that Christ was sent for an example, to be followed, and I am coming to see a distinct reflection of the Oneness/Trinny arg here (which I have been monitoring for...years, and frankly still do not understand; it amounts to words, to me) I note that Christ called himself "Son of Man" while He was here?
I know no Muslims who would laugh at Christ; I can provide examples of "Pastors" that essentially do so in their posts here. "The South will rise again," and worse. Ignorantly jeering about virgins. Yikes.
Amen; and to just toss out some memorized Scripture without personalizing it at all is a sign, to me, of the same thing. Doesn't mean it's always true.
I am not so sure of this now, as I was. The Qur'an says that Christ was sent for an example, to be followed, and I am coming to see a distinct reflection of the Oneness/Trinny arg here (which I have been monitoring for...years, and frankly still do not understand; it amounts to words, to me) I note that Christ called himself "Son of Man" while He was here?
Jesus also called Himself the "Son of God"....
John 10:36-38
36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
37If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
38But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
A Muslim would call Jesus a blasphemer. Not to mention that the Koran has some rather serious errors. For example, who was the promised son of Abraham? Isaac or Ishmael? Who was the one almost sacrificed? Isaac or Ishmael? The stories are seriously switched to justify the Islamic notion of Arab supremacy.
John 10:36-38
36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
37If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
38But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
A Muslim would call Jesus a blasphemer. Not to mention that the Koran has some rather serious errors. For example, who was the promised son of Abraham? Isaac or Ishmael? Who was the one almost sacrificed? Isaac or Ishmael? The stories are seriously switched to justify the Islamic notion of Arab supremacy.
Well, I've never heard Christ spoken of this way by a Muslim, or by the Qur'an? Yes, there are things in the Qur'an that should be understood in context, no doubt, but we have to do the same to the Bible. The Qur'an does seem to take a "Oneness" position, I'll grant you; a much less divisive one than currently exists in Christianity, it seems to me.
I mean. from Ishmael's pov, who was the lying dog that got his mother pregnant, and then kicked her out? So a lot of that needs to be read with discernment, I'll grant you, but I see plenty of story-bending in the Bible, too.
Well, I've never heard Christ spoken of this way by a Muslim, or by the Qur'an? Yes, there are things in the Qur'an that should be understood in context, no doubt, but we have to do the same to the Bible. The Qur'an does seem to take a "Oneness" position, I'll grant you; a much less divisive one than currently exists in Christianity, it seems to me.
I mean. from Ishmael's pov, who was the lying dog that got his mother pregnant, and then kicked her out? So a lot of that needs to be read with discernment, I'll grant you, but I see plenty of story-bending in the Bible, too.
Rest assured, if there had been another account in the Bible that said Ishmael was almost sacrificed, there'd be a reconciliation, no sweat.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Well, I've never heard Christ spoken of this way by a Muslim, or by the Qur'an? Yes, there are things in the Qur'an that should be understood in context, no doubt, but we have to do the same to the Bible. The Qur'an does seem to take a "Oneness" position, I'll grant you; a much less divisive one than currently exists in Christianity, it seems to me.
I mean. from Ishmael's pov, who was the lying dog that got his mother pregnant, and then kicked her out? So a lot of that needs to be read with discernment, I'll grant you, but I see plenty of story-bending in the Bible, too.
The point is that both narratives disagree. Both claim to be the Word of God. Therefore, one of them has to be correct... or both could be absolutely wrong.
Given the findings of ancient scrolls dating before Christ, most scholars would readily agree that the story as recorded in Genesis is far older than that found in the Koran.
The point is that both narratives disagree. Both claim to be the Word of God. Therefore, one of them has to be correct... or both could be absolutely wrong.
Given the findings of ancient scrolls dating before Christ, most scholars would readily agree that the story as recorded in Genesis is far older than that found in the Koran.
Hmm, I'm not so sure about the disagreeing narratives; from what I've read it agrees more with it than the Gospels agree with each other, frankly--the Qur'an refs the Torah, and admits to being later.
And yes, Christ also calls himself the Son of God, but the point was, I think maybe anyway, that Christ referred to Himself chiefly as "Son of Man," and Christians hotly debate Oneness/Trinity; my feeling is that these reflect the Muslim pov here quite well.
I'm frankly amazed, with the rampant Mother/Child heresies dominant at the time, that Islam recognizes Christ at all. You are in the minority of Christians, Aquila, but in addressing mainstream Christianity, I must say that I find most Muslim's conception of Christ much more holistic. Jews too, actually. These guys act more Christ-like; they virtually have no choice. Almost all the people I consider "friends" are there, and not by choice; but Americans as a rule are just too self-involved.
I dislike comparing them to US Christians, there is such a culture difference; wherein I think lies the rub. "Christ" is much closer to being just a word over here, even among believers. Usually a curse word.
Sadly, what strikes me the strongest in my mideast travels is how desperately they want to be here, be like us, lol. It's downright scary. "Out of the freezer and into the microwave," a completely foreign concept to all of them, sounds neat. Ha, I am so jonesing for a cup of fresh, real tea...
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